WELCOME! What is “TWILIGHT” saying to young women?

IMPORTANT

Michael O’Brien addresses the Twilight Saga in his article
“Twilight of the West”.

Read excerpts here OR better yet, if you have the time, please read the entire thing here.

Welcome to Spes Unica.
On this blog, I am examining the current Twilight phenomenon in the light of Christian principles and also taking the opportunity to explore other related cultural issues.  The hope is to give a voice to the truth about genuine femininity – so beautifully safeguarded by the Catholic Church.  I have a bunch of daughters I am trying to raise in a world that has, in many ways, made a point of destroying girls’ innocence.  As a professional religious educator I see the impact the culture is having on my students as well.  I heard it said recently that the goal of each woman’s life is to strive each day to be less EVE and more AVE.  Anyone who can see the value in that will understand why I am writing.  It just so happens that the current cultural obsession with the Twilight saga provides a great opportunity to examine these issues.

I update this blog with things I think are relevant to the discussion – sometimes, adding new pieces to already existing posts, other times posting replies to some of the comments received and finally, adding new posts to expand the overall outlook.  Twilight isn’t going away any time soon – nor are the issues it raises.  The posts build on each other – often times, I simply cannot answer all the questions I receive, so I reply to questions in the form of a new post.  If you have a question, you may want to see if it is addressed in another post.  Titles are listed on the left side of the page.

One of the most common questions that arises is why bother to worry about books, since fiction is precisely that…  My hope is first and foremost to provide a resource to those who may feel alone and under siege in this cultural landscape and secondarily to foster ongoing charitable discussion on these issues.

I get many, many, MANY comments dismissing any critique of the
Twilight series because it is “just fantasy”. Please, before you comment here, read subsequent posts dealing with the issue of “fantasy” and comment on the points made in the comment sections there. Once you have read about the effects of fantasy in our lives, please respond to the specific arguments rather than make sweeping statements about topics that I have already addressed thoroughly elsewhere.  THANKS!

Here are links to some of the more popular posts (just click):

Michael O’Brien: “Twilight of the West”

Msgr. Franco Perazzolo of Pontifical Council of Culture
calls
Twilight Saga
“moral vacuum with a deviant message.”

IMPORTANT: Do girls need “fantasy”?

* Frightening: to what degree is Twilight being used as a gateway to occult practices?
Look no further than the CHICAGO TWILIGHT CONVENTION that was held FEB. 6,7,8 for evidence.
Click HERE for a detailed account.

The Twilight saga is Anti-Christian and Anti-Gospel.

A Response to Deekin Chip – On Jacob’s Lust *****This is a very important post for those who want to see some of the content in the novels.  I avoid posting actual quotes because I think they are an occasion of sin, but I have put a little bit here because it is necessary. For those moms who say they read these books aloud with their daughters I ask – who reads these parts?  And would you read them aloud with your husband around?  Or your Pastor?  Why or why not?  I’ll add, this is simply interaction between Jacob and Bella.  Some scenes with Bella and Edward are worse.

Intellectual and Cultural “Respectability” and the Trivialization of Evil

* FOX NEWS reports Joanna Krupa’s claim that John Paul II would approve of her “frequent disrobing”.
She claims the Theology of the Body vindicates pornography.  This is false.  Click
here for the whole story.
*UPDATE* – Krupa is now using her Catholicism to try to defend a PETA ad in which she wears nothing but a large Crucifix to barely cover her private parts.  Check out the original post for the continuing story.

* A discussion of SELFISHNESS VS. LOVE

* Solemnity of the Annunciation
WHY is this a special day?  Read an account here.

* For all those who defend “Twilight” as a pro-life, pro-chastity, “old-fashioned morals” book… perhaps we should take a vote on the most pro-chastity item here from among this fan-merchandise

Having provided some of the more popular links, we will get into the topic at hand on this opening page.

What IS Twilight saying to young women?
This is an initial reflection written to coincide with the first movie release in  November 2008.

The Twilight Saga is an international sensation, but unlike other recent blockbusters (for example, the Harry Potter series), this fan base tilts very, very heavily towards females. (One fan site listed a ratio of 31 registered females for every male, and I would venture to say it may be optimistic about the number of males.)

The series has been carefully marketed as a courtly romance based on old fashioned morals.  But if that is the case, why are its readers reacting in a sexualized way? Have a look at what Twilight star Robert Pattinson says about the effect Edward is having on little girls:
Q: Is it weird to have girls that are so young have this incredibly sexualized thing around you? A: It’s weird that you get 8-year-old girls coming up to you saying, “Can you just bite me? I want you to bite me.” It is really strange how young the girls are, considering the book is based on the virtues of chastity, but I think it has the opposite effect on its readers though. [Laughs]”
See the context here

Why do some think Twilight is about chastity – and if it is, why the dichotomy between what it is and what its effects are on those who read it?

I am going to uncover what is really happening in the Twilight saga, and how its marketing is truly deceptive.
*THE TWILIGHT SAGA IS NOT PRO-CHASTITY *
To claim that the Twilight saga is based on the virtue of chastity is like calling the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition pro-chastity because the girls are clothed.  What the promoters are dwelling on is the fact that the couple don’t “go all the way” until after their wedding in the fourth book.  While this is no doubt a good thing, promoters of the series do not give enough information for parents to make a genuine assessment of the material.  First of all – the couple abstain from intercourse because Edward the vampire has super-human strength which could supposedly kill a human woman.  This aspect of the story itself  has an unseemly edge to it.  Why do romance novels have photos of shirtless men with rippling muscles on the covers?  The depiction of strength is meant to draw women in.  But Edward is SO strong… well, it is a depiction of strength that is attracting women, and it is specifically erotic in tone.  Grown women are wearing t-shirts that say “Edward broke my headboard” – a direct reference to the couple’s wedding night.  Such phenomena give a sense of the misappropriation of the word “chastity” when speaking of this series.  The abstinence practiced in the novels is based on fear, not on virtue – Edward’s fear, to be precise.  Bella wants to risk it.  So, it is not an exercise in valuing another person so much that you refuse to treat them as an object of use.  Let’s be clear that abstinence is not chastity.  Just because intercourse does not take place does not mean a couple is basing their relationship on use.  Bella gives detailed first person accounts of her “make out” encounters with Edward – everything from trying to unbutton clothing, to how loud her breathing is and how this or that feels… these detailed first person descriptions are designed to arouse young girls – like a gateway drug to full blown romance novels or vampire lore.  How can books in which the author has written detailed first person descriptions of actions leading to arousal help readers to be chaste?  The words on the page defy chastity.  Anyone who claims that the books promote chastity has to explain how a young girl can read detailed first-person descriptions of “making out” as a tool to preserving her innocence.  They also must  deny the experience of the star of the movie who claims otherwise.  There are pages and pages of text that will show why girls are being corrupted (or, perhaps, being led further down a path of corruption).  “Making out” before marriage is not chaste.  Common, yes.  But an example of the Christian virtue of chastity?  No.  It is mutual use – intemperate, unjust and uncharitable.  Books which describe this in detailed accounts are not chaste and cannot be used to promote chastity.  The fact that the books are not as graphic as other teen novels does not mean they are therefore innocent.

*EDWARD IS NOT A VIRTUOUS SUITOR*
Edward is a vampire. He chooses to date Bella even though he has an overwhelming desire to kill her.  This is contrary to love.  True love will end a relationship before it will put the beloved at risk because it seeks, first and foremost, the good of the beloved.  Just take a moment to think about this quote from the movie: Edward tells Bella that she does not fear him because she believes a lie.  He tells her “I’m the world’s most dangerous predator… everything invites you in… my voice, my face, my smell… I’m designed to kill… I’ve killed before”.  And what is Bella’s emphatic response?  “I DON’T CARE!”  Is that healthy?  Is this evidence that Bella is making a mature decision?  It has been suggested by others that this demonstrates Bella’s courage.  No – it just shows the disturbing depth of her obsession.

*BELLA IS NOT A STRONG FEMALE ROLE MODEL*
Bella is a girl to feel sorry for – drawn to a bad guy even though lots of good guys like her.  She is a child of divorce who thinks marriage is “stupid”, husbands are “dull” and babies are “noisy and covered in goo”.  She is attracted to Edward because he is so unconventional – so much greater than mere mortals.  It is a very immature attitude.  She is obsessed with Edward, spends a great deal of time thinking about/attempting to harm herself when he goes away for a while and happily gives up her soul to become a vampire.  That isn’t courageous – it is weak.

The Audience for this book series has now reached SEVENTEEN MILLION and the movie has opened to a $70 MILLION first weekend at the box office.  Those in the media are claiming that teen girls will never again be ignored or underestimated as an audience.
What are we setting our girls up for?
“External sins against chastity are any words, actions or gestures consciously performed to arouse or indulge sexual pleasure except between husband and wife in their legitimate marital relations… Internal sins against chastity are sexual thoughts, desires or feelings deliberately aroused or indulged, except by husband and wife in their mutual relationship… Both external and internal sins against chastity are mortal sins, if the sin is fully deliberate”.  (Basic Catechism Course based on Fr. Hardon)

There is something deeper here that needs to be examined.  Begin by reading the full critique here: http://spesunica.wordpress.com/about/
then, enter the discussion if you dare.

17

"...but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall die." Genesis 2:17

127 Comments

  1. I agree, this is a female mass intoxication with disturbing implications. The book, which I finished yesterday, is hypnocitic and addictive. The mixture of sexual stimiulation and bloodletting/violence is sickening, yet despite having such strong misgivings, I did find myself anxious to read the book again. to see what happens.
    The excitement in my middle school classroom on Friday was palpable; the girls had alll planned to see the film that night, and my warnings about inappropriate content for 12 year olds, got mothers calling the principal. I work in a Catholic school.
    I feel helpless to stop this train, but I will be reviewing both the film and the movie in an attempt to reach worried Catholic parents.

  2. I subtitute teach at a middle school and that’s the only reason I went to see the movie – all the girls were carrying around the Twilight books and curiousity got the best of me. I agree the movie is addictive, and the book even more so. Edward and Bella’s relationship is not very healthy, but the Noble Savage literary theme sucks me in every time =)

  3. This kind of thing has been around forever. Think of the Rochester character in Jane Eyre – dark, dangerous, mysterious, questionable morals. But Jane is drawn to him, and though she fights it, returns to him in the end and marries him. Oh, and what about Laurence Olivier’s character in Rebecca (based on the Daphne du Maurier novel)?? What a nut! Don’t worry – our girls will survive the fantasy, as they have for centuries.

  4. This is outrageous. I’m a younger girl, and after putting the book down i wasn’t like “wow I’m going to go and find a guy who wants to kill me, and make out with me all at the same time” IT’S NOT REAL! It’s a book for teens, and yes more so for girls. As much as you don’t want to face the facts, girls are going to kiss boys before they get married, possibly more. If you were to read more into the books, you would know that there is a talk about God. That the vampires believe in god, and that they even have a cross in their home. The main vampires also do NOT choose to feed off humans, just animals. Bella says “It’s okay i trust you, i know you wont hurt me” The age group for this book is starting high school and up. When i was in high school i was reading things like “The catcher in the rye” where cursing was none stop and “Of mice and men” where a man was shot for his actions. So, trust me, your not setting your girls up for anything. Letting them into the real world, and going to high school is setting them up for worse then this book ever would. Girls grow up. It’s time to face the facts, and stop blaming a book/movie.

  5. I am a twenty four year old Christian Girl who thinks you guys need a break from your life! Seriously your kids read worse in there History class. None of you ever kissed a guy before you got married come on. It part of being a teenager. And also they were responsible about it they ended up married before anything happens. Its called hormones people every teenager has them. This book makes a young girl want a man to treat her right, want to find someone who want to do it right marriage, then sex. Make them want to find an old fashioned guy who still open doors for them. You as an adult are going to have a diffrent experiance reading the book because you are more mature then persay a 12 year old who read the book. So really find something else to do then critic a book that is pretty chaste compared to whats out there.

  6. I am a 14 year old Christian girl. This book definately didn’t suddenly make me want to find some dark, dangerous boyfriend. IT IS FICTION!! Maybe Bella’s relationship isn’t healthy but that isn’t the point of the book. It is supposed to give you entertainment, not advice. If we wanted advice on relationships we would buy a book on relationships. But we bought this book to read for FUN. I read Romeo and Juliet last year in school and it was much worse than Twilight.

  7. Dear Christi – I acknowledge that you are reading Twilight for entertainment and fun. But here’s the question: if it is unhealthy, why do you find it entertaining and fun? Look a little deeper. What is it that you are looking for?

    Dear Nicci – read my new post for an example of a true gentleman – “A YOUNG MAN OF HEROIC VIRTUE”

  8. Dear Jade – I would ask you what “facts” you think I need to face. Here is a fact – you are a precious child of God, created in His Image. God loves you very much, and any man who falls in love with you should respect your awesome dignity. This means you should not allow yourself to be used for pleasure. If you do not think “making out” is use (and granted, sometimes girls want to do it as much if not more than guys – but then it is MUTUAL use) read my post “Why is ‘making out’ unjust?!”. The “real world” can be redeemed by love when we bring the authentic love of Christ to it. Do you want to be part of that revolution?

  9. Here’s the much deeper reality going on in the story. The occult always inverts the truth. It also encases deception within 80-90% truth, so it becomes seductive, desirable and taps into the deepest longings that were imprinted into the human psyhce since mankind was created.

    Knowledge gained without permission is witchcraft. If any of you think I’m pointing fingers or jumping on a high horse, I’m not. I mean and say these things with gentleness and conviction. I’ve been deeply exposed to the occult, mangled by it. These practices are very much alive. Blood letting, the devouring of human flesh and blood to gain strength and power, the ability to tap into the supernatural, to see and know in ways others do not to gain an advantage, the power to change the future, to control and manipulate, and the pursuit of such things for eternal life. It’s service and worship to a god, but not a good god.

    The books discuss archtypes weaved with the purest points of worship…love, intimacy, sacrifice, family and everlasting life. It draws us with seductive power and then slips the deception into all the beauty: you, too, can be like God.

    It takes a great deal of effort to sit quiet enough to understand and separate the soul from the spirit of this series. It’s tapping a generation being released into very deep spiritual things, a return if you will, to Molech and Chemosh, Ashtoreth and Bephomat. This generation is extremely open to spiritual things. This is good and bad because it depends on which message gets to them first and how they manage the message.

    I absolutely love great love stories. The truth within the series is that Edward wants to protect, provide and sacrifice for Bella, and she for him. Those are profoundly beautiful aspects of true love. The deception enters as occult principles are interwoven with the story, so while your taking in the beauty of it…you’re also being required to stomach the demonic.

    In the beginning the sons of god noticed the beauty of the daughters of men. They came down, took them as partners and entered them. They fathered a renouwn race, the mighty men of old. (They are later described as the Anakim.) They were an abomination before the Lord because of their wickedness. Genesis 6:1-8

  10. Just want to put in 2cents real quick.

    I started reading these books when I was 15 .
    I never thought of them as arousing or erotic in any way.
    Like many other girls, I found myself falling for Edward as I delved into the story. Before I knew it, my heart was beating faster during the mushier scenes.
    The characters are abstinent in every sense of the word untill marriage.
    A deep kiss and gentle touches in a relationship can be exciting, but exciting doesn’t equate to sexual arousal. One of the reasons I like these books is that they bring excitement back into abstinence, like in the old days where holding hands was exciting in a relationship. I believe that’s why many describe the books as having old fashioned morals. The characters don’t engage in sexual activity in order to feel excitement and find a meaningful relationship. I believe people are confusing excitement with arousal. i seems over the top to me. I’m open to debate with those who disagree with me.

  11. Similar theme read on what that already a blog, but here certainly it is described more interestingly. Thanks the author of a blog.

  12. To the 17-year-old Christian who is a Twilight fan:

    Sweetheart, please try to understand what I am going to say to you and I am not trying to be condescending in any way. I am a 45-year-old wife and mother who has been around the block many, many times in my life and have learned many things sometimes the hardest ways possible. What you need to understand is that, what is only exciting and thrilling to you (not sexually arousing) may be much more to the young man with whom you are sharing the deep kiss and gentle touches. I am not implying that girls/women cannot be just as aroused as the male partners that they are with, but you can trust me on this one, just because you are not aroused by the intimate activities does not, in any way, mean that your partner isn’t. We all have different levels of feeling, both physical and emotional, and very often boys or men have a more heightened sense of arousal by kissing and touching than girls. Not always, so please nobody blast me for making that statement; but we all develop our sexual senses at different times.

    Just please be careful when making these judgments and try to understand why even something that seems harmless may very well lead to something before either of you planned.

  13. I’m sorry, but any girl who thinks that kissing and caressing are not sexually arousing to a boy is amazingly delusional. The sexual charge that occurs in 99% of boys doing these things is precisely why they are so exciting to boys.

  14. People are so ridiculous.

    Twilight was not written to please Catholics or any other religion.

    Why complain about it? Go read the bible or something.

  15. It’s a book! Anything that gets youngsters reading and broadening their horizons whether they agree with the content or not is benefitial to their development as individuals. Give teenage girls some credit they can think for themselves! Or is that the underlying problem here? So whats next? Are you going to ban them from reading 1984?!!!

  16. Thank you so much for this article. I am a teenage girl and I totally agree…I mean why read a book that goes against everything that you (should) uphold? This is one of the other many ways we are creating a culture of death.
    I passed this out to all of my friends. Thanks again. Keep up the great articles!

  17. Hey, I thought I’d put in my two cents.
    I’m an athiest and I don’t fully agree with the abstinence movement, but I think the Twilight books are evil, for lack of a better word. Without even going into how badly written they are, the sheer amount of morally suspect themes in the 4 books is sickening, as well as the anti feminist path Meyer creates for Bella. She becomes obsessed with Edward, a man who follows her everywhere even when she doesn’t know, constantly talks down to her, mentions many times that he could kill her (if a guy says that to me, i’m calling the police!) and in Eclipse, removes the engine from her car to stop her from seeing a friend. By Breaking Dawn, things go down the route of abuse, bruising and unconsciousness during sex, begging for sex, one of the most disturbing pregnancies ever used solely to promote some pro life stance (I’m pro choice) and then paedophilia! I know these books are just fiction but when you’re a teenage girl, you’re more impressionable than you realise and easily more prone to exaggeration. Look at some of the Twilight fan pages and read them talk about being gladly willing for Edward Cullen to bruise them during sex. That’s not even mentioning all the violent incidents that Twilight fangirls have brought about (beating up girls who aren’t fans, causing riots in malls, etc) Stephenie Meyer should be ashamed of herself but she clearly has the maturity of an 8 year old, and the writing skills to go with it.

  18. Dear Kayleigh –
    I think you give a very clear headed analysis of the books and why they are disturbing. I agree completely that they portray a very unhealthy view of woman.

  19. Dear Lady of Rohan –
    Thanks for the encouragement. I think my Lord of the Rings loving daughters would probably get along very well with you.
    God bless.

  20. Dear Em –
    We simply have a fundamental disagreement that children will benefit from reading, regardless of content.
    The Twilight Saga’s impact on girls is fantasizing and obsession (as agreed upon by the star of the movie, Robert Pattinson).
    Would you hold the same position regarding teenage boys? Should we encourage them to get copies of Playboy as long as they read the articles – or can we agree that kind of exploitation is wrong?

  21. No, but reading one book can prompt kids to read other books. I can’t give any data for Twilight (it hasn’t been around long enough to make a large impact), but there is an interesting tidbit about Harry Potter from this study involving children’s reading.

    http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6569106.html

    “As to the influence of J.K. Rowling’s Harry Potter series, of the children who had read the books, almost three-quarters said the series had made them interested in reading other books.”

    This article also claims that only 55% of teens read for fun.

    Reading is very important, and there are many girls who would have read anything if it wasn’t for Twilight, who instead find time to read four books that average over 500 pages.

  22. Dear Teenage girl –
    Yes, I understand what you are saying about encouraging reading… but I still cannot buy the argument that any read is a good read. I would rather my children watch a good movie than read a bad book any day of the week! Remember, what we take into our imaginations is really like food for our souls. If something has poison in it, it shouldn’t be eaten. Similarly, my claim is that some literary works (or movies, etc.) can have spiritually poisonous elements. You may disagree with me on what would be defined as spiritual poison, but surely we could agree in principle that such a thing exists and shouldn’t be consumed.

  23. well i thought the book is good.
    BUT, women now take it kinda serious..
    its just a FANTASY,fiction..not true.
    i agree at teenage girl.

    i notice teens now are encouraged to read books.
    almost half of my class reads book now, and suprisingly they developed communication very well.
    now you guys will be asking “why not read different book rather than twilight?”
    well teens need to have interest in reading.
    you cant force a teen to read a cook book when she’s intrested in mystery or romance.

    problem with teens they got much involve in fantasy esp. EDWARD CULLEN.
    well ofcourse i dnt wanna argue with that but snap out,. its all a fantasy. The story tend to tickle our let me say flattering bone?(i made it up)

    abt EDWARD.
    well the actor suites him. but i really admire is his role or character, after reading the book and watchd the movie, i see him as a real human, and i forgot that he’s a vampire(esp some parts that a vampire usually do). the thing is, he is a protective gentleman that take things down slowly, slowly in a way that how he show his love and affection , and respect to bella, . In real world men should be inspired or learn something. well i dnt tell you guys that be exactly like edward but have some dignity to avoid vices, stealing, rape etc. yeah i know nobody is perfect but be one of the person who cares about the world and for peace and love and harmony.

    to compare to HARRY POTTER.
    well they say that twilight is like devils work cos it involves vampire and stuff.
    but is witchraft, magic,wizards included?

    once again i told you this things are all FCITION..none of them are true…
    its the authors imagination,
    they tend to widen the readers imagination.

    btw Stephenie Meyer have no thoughts of making bad toughts for the readers..
    it just came to her mind and also dreamt it, she tend to entertain the readers.

    and dont worry this twilight saga mania wont last long.
    its just like the trend for this season like harry potter.

    NOTE: i dont tend to offend anyone, its just my own opinion. so carefree to comment abt it im glad that someone has the ‘voice’ or a freedom to speak.

    ty

  24. *DO NOT BE DECEIVED BY THOSE WHO CALL THIS A PRO-CHASTITY BOOK*
    If one were to look up “chastity” in the dictionary, then one would know it deals specifically with “sexual relations”. In my opinion, “making out” is not sexual, though I understand that it can be interpreted differently depending on your beliefs. Stephanie Meyer, a devout Mormon, was not trying to promote unchaste behavior — she was being realistic. The majority of teenagers in relationships, and even those not in relationships, do this all the time. In fact, to most of these teenagers the idea of not having sex until after marriage seems ridiculous, So, from that standpoint, I’d say these books are very pro-chaste.

    *DO NOT BE DECEIVED BY THOSE WHO SAY EDWARD IS VIRTUOUS*
    In Twilight, Edward repeatedly warns Bella to stay away from him. In New Moon, the sequel to Twilight, he leaves for the majority of the book because he doesn’t want Bella to be in danger. However, one of the themes of this book is that love prevails. Bella and Edward are truly in love, so yes, Edward chooses to be with Bella, and because they are in love, Edward does not hurt her. In fact, at the end of Twilight when he has to drink her blood in order to remove the vampire venom from James, the antagonist, from her, he is able to stop even thought her blood is like a drug to him.

    *DO NOT BE DECEIVED BY THOSE WHO SAY BELLA IS STRONG*
    Yes, Bella is attracted to Edward and chooses to be with him. If she was unaware that he was a vampire, then yes, she would be week. However, she chooses to be with him even though she knows that he’s a vampire and that her blood is like his “own personal brand of heroine”. She’s brave because she knows the risks that she’s taking but chooses love over safety anyway. I’m sure anyone who’s ever been in love would do the same thing. In response to your other arguments, Bella does not think marriage is stupid. She’s just uncomfortable with the idea of getting married fresh out of high school, as most girls her age would be. However, she marries him anyway because, as i mentioned earlier, “love prevails”.

    Overall, Stephenie Meyer wrote these books to be interpreted as fiction. If these young girls don’t understand the difference between fact and fiction, it’s not the fault of the books.

  25. Hi Christine.
    I guess we would also disagree on the nature of love. There are a few really good resources on the nature of love – Karol Wojtyla’s “Love & Responsibility”, Josef Pieper’s “About Love” and Dietrich Von Hildebrand’s “The Heart”. There is also a good book to read – in this case, an autobiography – which shows very clearly why obsession is not love. It is called “A Severe Mercy” by Sheldon Vanauken.
    I do not disagree with you regarding the realism of Meyer’s work. It merely reflects the level of decay in relationships today.
    I have written a number of other posts on these subjects – “Why is ‘making out’ unjust?!” deals with the first issue you bring up. “Perspective: Why take on Twilight? To fight for true femininity!” addresses the decline in feminine behavior (why women today somehow think it is o.k. to be used and to use others in return) and perhaps one of the most important posts I have written thus far “IMPORTANT: Do girls need ‘fantasy’?” addresses the fiction question – namely, why fiction can be very harmful. I do not let Meyer off the hook for writing “fiction”. I do not believe she could write the passages she has written in those books without the intent to stimulate a reaction in her readers.

  26. I sort of agree with Christine.
    The books are completely fictional.
    I don’t understand why people need to make a big fuss about the content of the book.
    It’s not like anyone can do anything about it, really.
    It’s already sort of published and people have to accept the reality that the book is really good.
    And, no matter how convincing the content may be, it’ll wear off.
    I’m a teenager, and I had my fair share of the obsession.
    But, you know what? That’s why it’s called obsession! It’s isn’t real!
    The young ones who are absorbed in the quest of finding a vampire will grow up and come to realize that it’s impossible to find a vampire who says he’s masochistic!
    It’s a book! It doesn’t have any fault in making girls go gaga.
    The author, Stephenie Meyer, does not have the intention to change the perceptive of people in life. She just wrote her ideas, which turned out to be really good. She wasn’t all like, “READ TWILIGHT! VAMPIRES EXIST! EDWARD CULLEN IS THE IDEAL MAN!”
    The book, I feel, is only depicting the power of love. It tells us that we shouldn’t like someone just because of what he is, what he looks like and what he does! It tells us that if we really feel strongly about that person, we should not fight what we feel or else we might end up losing ourselves.
    In the book, Edward tried his best to stay away from Bella, to warn Bella. But, since he feels strongly for her, he dreads staying away from her and ends up falling in love with her. And in the fourth book, Bella becomes a vampire and endures the process, no matter how excruciating the pain may be. It only shows that she’s willing to sacrifice anything just for the person you love. If you love that person, you will do anything to make him happy and to make yourself happy by making happy. It’s not a one-sided action; she’s not only thinking for herself or for his personal satisfaction. I don’t understand why you take the literal meaning when you can look deeper into the meaning of the passages.

    Okay, you heard what I had to say. To close this entry, I think the Twilight craze will eventually wear off. It’s not fair to contradict what it says. Just respect the integrity of the author. And the readers can choose what they want to read. So, if anyone is at fault for creating this massive craze, it’s the readers. We chose to read it. Some chose to believe it. And, in the end, it’s still fictional!

  27. Hello? it’s just an OBSESSION, we don’t BELIEVE in it.
    as far as i know, OBSESSION is FAR different than BELIEVING.
    can’t you just accept the FACT that it may be not real, i mean, its NOT real, it’s FICTION that Stephanie Meyer wrote a very fascinating and attractive novel, it doesn’t mean we contradict this. It’s not just a novel, NOT simply a novel itself, but we learn thingSS here. It shows the immortality and mortality of a person. And this mortality isn’t a hinder in one’s TRUE LOVE! and why do you say that it contradicts the CHURCH? anong kinalaman ng church jan? you people are out of your minds! Go find your own business to destroy. and not others’ work.

  28. I am a sixteen-year-old and wanted to tell you that I love your website!!
    I had never really liked Twilight, because Stephanie Meyer is a fantastically horrible writer. But all your articles made me really realize how dreadful her books really are. They’re so full of immorality and twisted themes presented in such an enticing manner…..like the serpent in Genesis, tempting Eve with the apple- what a fitting comparison for Meyer herself to use!
    How can anyone say it doesn’t matter because it’s fiction, when I go to school and hear ceaseless rants about how perfect Edward is? How can it not matter when it’s twisting their views of what a good, strong, holy man is? You can’t dismiss something as fiction when it shapes their reality! Not to mention how it’s lessening their appreciation for actual good literature.
    Thank you for this website! Sometimes I feel alone in my anit-twilight-ness. :)

  29. Dear Stella –
    Thank you for your kind comment. Sometimes even as a mom I feel alone in my anti-twilight-ness! Thus the blog. We can provide an alternative viewpoint to the media’s hype (which, of course, is motivated by profit. If something is wildly popular, fans will purchase anything that has to do with that thing. Of course editors of magazines will know that. Producers of television shows will know that. Increase the buzz about Twilight and sell more magazines…. or get higher ratings for your tv show.). You are correct to notice that if the claims people make about the irrelevance of fiction were true, life at school would be very different! The same is true for my own daughters.
    Hang in there! I’ll try to keep posting worthwhile things that you will appreciate in order to help you feel less alone in the struggle for sanity. And keep reading good literature! You deserve it!
    God bless.

  30. Personally I thought that the 1st and second books were OK, maybe slightly twisted but still pretty unharmfull and entertaining, without really reading into them to far. But the Fourth book really was kind of sick(for lack of a better word). I completely agree with Kayleigh.The pregnancy part made me sick to my stomach, and the sexual balance is definitely not healthy between Bella and Edward: she is continuously begging for sex, and is hurt when she gets it, then ends up with a monster inside that is supposed to claw her way out of the womb! I wouldn’t say the book is evil, just very disturbing.

  31. and fairly poorly written…..

  32. I’m fifteen years old and I find The Twilight Series utterly revolting. When people say “oh its just a book” its not just a book, what people don’t realize is that everything a young girl ( and humans in general) reads, hears, watches etc. is absorbed in some way so even though , like with The Twilight Series, she knows that it is fantasy she will in her subconscious fantasizes and thus will lead into an obsession,she won’t even realize the change in herself.For those who fail to realize that obsessions and fantasizing can be and very often are very dangerous, for instance the more often a young girl fantasies she will act like the characters and she will act in the immoral ways that they do. I would also like to call to your attention a number of details but first perhaps the definition of obsession is needed to stress my point.
    Obsession- the domination of one’s thoughts or feelings by a persistent idea, image, desire, etc. 1. Compulsive preoccupation with a fixed idea or an unwanted feeling or emotion, often accompanied by symptoms of anxiety.
    2. A compulsive, often unreasonable idea or emotion.
    One of the points I would like to make is that though Bella gets married and then sleeps with Edward she still gets married at the young age of eighteen. I would also like to point out that, but correct me if my fact is wrong that Bella sells her soul to the devil to become a vampire for who knows what reasons. I would like to point out that this series is so popular that even the kids who hate books, reading etc. read at least the first book or the whole series, these kids did not even read The Harry Potter Series. They don’t read any other books so they unlike some devoted readers who have read the classics (Like The Lord of The Rings) don’t realize that what they have read is not even written well Harry Potter was far more well written than this series Another disturbing detail is that she supposedly wrote the books because she had dreamt the story. It makes you wonder what Stephenie Meyer ate or did before she slept at night. Again it just makes you wonder why a mother of toddler boys would write about a vampire who’s in love with a high schoolgirl and so on and so forth and on and on and on because she doesn’t know when she’s stretched her story out to long.I would like to also point out that girls like this series a lot because its a love story, face it every girl has romantic moments its the lacking of good love story material that gets them to read this series. I hope you will not denounce this paragraph because I have not read this series and never plan to.I am open to debate, don’t worry I will be back! ;)

  33. Dear Angel –
    Thanks for writing. My own daughters share your experience. People say “it’s just a book” – but the various volumes of Twilight are constant companions of girls during the school day, Twilight is the main topic of girls conversations over the lunch hour and a uniting theme which has been effective in creating a sub-culture within the school. Those who have not read Twilight (my own daughters, for example) have not only been effectively excluded from socializing as a consequence, they have also been publicly ridiculed and bullied for not succumbing to the sub culture. It’s insane. I think the world that pre-teen and teen girls live in is not always taken seriously. Adults write off “fads” with words like “teeny bopper” and “chick flicks” – not grasping that a young girl who refuses to lower herself to the standards of the culture may spend 7 hours a day, 5 days a week in an inhospitable environment in which she is undergoing harassment. I have not found administrations receptive to critique in this regard. The false guise of “literature” is given to Twilight (and my friend Teenage Girl from a post above – if you are reading – I think this happens a lot, not JUST with Twilight) and all is brushed under the rug. It is utterly false to claim that reading anything is good (just because it is good to be reading). I have made an analogy to food in the past. If reading is feeding the mind and the soul, we should be as attentive (if not more so!) to the “ingredients” in our books as we are to the ingredients in our food. Poison in the body is bad enough. It necessitates assistance from a doctor. Why is poisoning the soul not even questioned? It is an irrational position to claim that reading “anything” is ok, just because reading is good. I would bet the same people would not eat a dog poop brownie if offered. Why? Because they wouldn’t think eating “anything” is good, just because it is eating. They would recognize that dog poop is gross. But, we have got to the point in our own culture where many can no longer recognize the gross equivalent of dog poop brownies for the soul. (I actually think Twilight is worse than that – I think it is poisonous – but if you want to see my case for that, read my post critiquing the review in the Catholic Post). Sin darkens the intellect and weakens the will. We have a culture of use and exploitation. So – raising concerns about occult content or the actual lack of chastity promoted by the Twilight series is treated with a roll of the eyes and a sigh of “whatever”. BUT – it is easier for the body to expel the ill effects of the dog poop brownie than it is for the soul to expel the toxins ingested in the form of bad “literature”. What did Christ tell us in Matthew 28? “Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.”
    I agree with your critique of the bad writing in the Twilight Saga. Unfortunately, many reading it have not been exposed to classics like The Lord of the Rings – which is so excellent. Hang in there. I’m glad you are not reading this: as it says on a bumper sticker my daughter sent to me on Facebook – Friends don’t let friends read Twilight.

  34. Exactly Thank You for sharing my point!
    No one realizes that everything we see, here, etc. effects are daily life in every way.

  35. “One of the points I would like to make is that though Bella gets married and then sleeps with Edward she still gets married at the young age of eighteen.”

    That would be because Edward is permanently stuck at eighteen, and she refuses to get any older then him.

    “I would also like to point out that, but correct me if my fact is wrong that Bella sells her soul to the devil to become a vampire for who knows what reasons”

    She doesn’t sell her soul to the devil, per se – the point is, Edward believes that vampires don’t have souls (like poof out of existence, not damned to hell), but there really is no evidence either way. Carlise (another one of the main characters) believe that the vampires actions determine what happens if they should die, while the rest of the vampires don’t have an opion either way.

    It’s not like Bella is outright selling her soul to the devil, and sighning a contract with blood…

    I don’t feel that you ought to speak for a story you haven’t read – don’t read it if you don’t want to, but if you want to criticise it, you ought to read it to actually know what you’re criticising.

  36. Thank you so much for creating this website! This stuff needs to be heard. I’m sorry that so many girls, after reading this, don’t seem to be taking it to heart. I am a 16-year-old girl who goes to a private, Catholic school, and I have read the books. I intended to only read the first one, because I thought the movie looked good, but I ended up reading all of them. As has been mentioned before, they are VERY addicting. I felt uncomfortable about it because I knew that so much in them goes against our faith. I understand that most girls know it is fiction and won’t believe any of it, but still, why would you want to fill your brain with all that trash just for the sake of entertainment? As for the whole kissing/making out-before-marriage thing, I understand that in this day and age, it is a rare thing, but that doesn’t make it impossible or completely outdated. Let’s try to keep our standards high, shall we? : ) If anyone is looking for an unbelievably cute, romantic love story (that also promotes good, Christian values! : ) ), I would suggest they read Arms of Love by Carmen Marcoux.

  37. I am not going to defend or join you in your critique of the Twilight series. That is my opinion and it don’t think it is relevant. The point of this post is to make you aware…after reading these posts I am strongly reminded of a story in the Bible in which Jesus addresses a crowd stoning a woman whom they deem sinful, and he tells them “let he who has the least sin throw the first stone.” So tell me…..when you started attacking a novel, an art form that someone spent many hours working on, pouring her heart into, can you say you are perfectly clean? That maybe slandering a writer’s work online maybe be a little judgmental? You are by all means entitled to your opinion, and I support you more than 100% in editing what your children see…there is a lot of junk out there that causes our children to lose their innocence at a very young age (I will agree with you that these books are not intended for young girls) …I applaud you for being responsible….but I can’t help but feel, as an artist, as a Christian, as a feminist, that this website is nothing but HATE. I personally always try to remember that there is good and bad in the world. Not everything is the perfect love story, even in the Bible it told of individuals resisting temptation and giving into it, Shakespeare is full of sexual innuendos, Jane Austin wrote of lies, deception, pride, and various selfish human tendencies…I guess what I am trying to say is that it is YOU, the reader, that attaches the meaning and severity of meaning to each word.
    This post may just be another roadblock in your path to destroy….but I wanted someone who just may happen across this site to know that not all Christian’s make such a massive effort to slander someone’s work…not all Christian’s use their opinions to undermine another one of God’s creations and what may be important to that person. As Christian’s we may not always agree or like things in the world around us, but we LOVE…we LOVE because that is what we were told to do, not condemn four fictional books that twenty years from now probably won’t mean much.

  38. Dear Rachel –

    The Biblical story you bring up regarding the woman who is caught in adultery is accurate to a point – Jesus does stop the crowd from killing the woman. (Yes, they used to kill women who were caught in adultery!) However, he doesn’t simply put a stop to those picking up stones to throw at the woman. He also tells the woman to go and sin no more. He does not condone her adultery. She is called upon to stop what she has been doing wrong as well. Most of the time when people quote that story, they leave off the end, where Jesus takes the time to instruct the woman caught in adultery. (John 8:1-11)
    There is something called “the law of self-exception” – it is when we apply certain standards to others that we do not apply to ourselves. I am very critical of Meyer’s work, as you know. I will not deny it and I do not believe that making critiques of something automatically convicts a person of hypocrisy and violence – the crimes of those who were ready to stone the woman. However, I cannot fail to mention that you have just been very critical of my work – my writing, my website. You asked me about being perfectly clean. I am most certainly a sinner and will not deny that although I do work every day, by the help of God’s grace to avoid the occasions of sin. Then allow me to ask you – seeing that you deem that necessary in order to engage in criticism of another’s work – have you asked the same thing of yourself, or have you applied the “law of self exception”? In other words, do your own standards not apply to you? This is something to reflect on. Some of the words you have used to describe my work that I too have spent many hours on, pouring my heart into include: attacking, slandering, judgmental, “nothing but HATE”, “path to destroy”. These claims, it would seem, undermine your own last sentence which states “As Christian’s we may not always agree or like things in the world around us, but we LOVE…” and you equate love with not condemning.
    My take on this is that I don’t want to discourage you from offering your critique of my work, Rachel – quite the contrary. It really doesn’t matter how much time or how much of their heart a person puts onto something. We can still judge what they produce on its merits. I agree with you that Christians are called to love. Where I disagree with you is that love requires that we never pass judgment – and often very critical judgment – on the things around us. In fact, sometimes it is the most loving thing we can do. I don’t critique Meyer’s work because people like what I have to say. In fact, what I write often brings derision. No one who opposes a major cultural force like this makes a lot of friends. However, I was asked to publish my critique to make it available to those who might find it helpful – so I have done so.
    I also disagree that in 20 years, these fictional books won’t mean much. What we read forms us and shapes us and impacts us well into the future. It impacts our decision making and our worldview. There was once an expression used “The pen is mightier than the sword.” I believe it.

  39. Dear Teenage Girl –

    I think there is a lot of debate about the role of the soul in the Twilight Saga. I think Angela’s take is a fair interpretation based on our understanding of sin. While you are correct – there is no contract signed in blood leading to a definitive “selling” of Bella’s soul to the devil – a Christian understanding of sin requires us to examine Bella’s intention. What I mean is that, for a Christian, by intending to do something seriously sinful (and surrendering your soul is certainly serious!) you are, in fact, guilty of the sin because your will has already chosen the evil. If I set out to rob a bank and I have made all my plans, arranged my get away, recruited an accomplice, etc. – but on my way into the bank that morning I slip on the ice and break my leg and have to be taken away on a stretcher so I cannot complete the bank robbery – I may not have any money to show for it, but I AM guilty of grave sin. I am guilty of the sin because with full knowledge, I fully consented to a seriously evil act. I was just thwarted in the completion.
    I think this is true for Bella. She has decided that she will construct her own definition of Hell – namely, hell is where Edward is not. Therefore, she consents to losing her soul in spite of Edward’s concern, in order to become a vampire. Does she actually lose her soul? Meyer does not say (conveniently, I might add). But Bella’s intention has already been made manifest through her will even if the completion of the act of losing her soul is in some way thwarted. (Whether or not it IS thwarted – we simply do not know.)

  40. Thanks Gianna.
    I hear from a lot of girls who read the books in spite of feeling uncomfortable about it, like you just mentioned. I’m so happy to read your exhortation “Let’s try to keep our standards high, shall we?” Yes! We don’t regret keeping our standards high – but we often regret not doing so. I am trying, through this blog, to encourage young ladies to believe in and act in accordance with their great dignity. It looks like you can encourage your own peers to do the same. God bless.

  41. Note to all – on the topic of offering critiques on things we haven’t read – I welcome everyone’s contribution on this blog.
    I think there are a lot of big themes we are dealing with here, and people can have opinions on those – and yes, even on the way those themes are reflected in the Twilight Saga as they have picked up from their parents, their friends, youth leaders or pastors, reviews of those who have read it, etc. – without reading it themselves. My own children know a lot about the series because I discuss it with them, but I have chosen not to expose them to the actual books and movie. I still value their take on all of this because they (especially my grade schoolers) are thrown into the whole scene on a daily basis and are impacted by it… so, even if you have not read the books or seen the film, I still welcome and value your participation.

  42. I just want to make this arguement in favor of vampires having souls (a slightly ridiculous arguement since this book is fantasy, and we’re argueing over the existence of souls in creatures that don’t exist, but still).

    With the exception of Bella, all vampires do not chose to become vampires – it is something that is done to them.

    Therefore, is it fair to claim that they lose their souls over something they can’t control? Read the second chapter of New Moon (ch. 15 of Twilight also relates)

    I’ll type up the relevent quotes, for those who don’t want to look it up.

    /////

    “But I’m hoping that there is still a point to this life, even for us. It’s a long shot, I’ll admit,” he continued in an offhand voice. “By all accounts, we’re damned regardless. But I hope, maybe foolishly, that we’ll get some measure of credit for trying.”

    “I don’t think that’s foolish,” I (Bella) mumbled. I couldn’t imagine anyone, deity included, who wouldn’t be impressed by Carlisle.

    Carlise spoke slowly. “I look at my… son. His strength, his goodness, the brightness that shines out of him – and it only fuels that hope, that faith, more then ever. How could there not be more for one such as Edward?”

    I nodded in fervent agreement.

    /////

    Bella doesn’t believe she will lose her soul. Therefore, she’s not intending to surrender it. She is willing to risk it, to be with Edward – but if Bella REALLY believed that she would lose her soul by turning into a vampire, she would probably reconsider – there is no evidence anywhere in the book that shows that she really thinks she will lose her soul.

    She keeps telling Edward that she doesn’t mind risking it, but that’s because she thinks he’s wrong.

  43. I really wish you had replied to my above post – I’ve been waiting for over a week. I realize it’s not completley on topic, but people around here seem to do that a lot, and you tend to reply to them… I know I keep coming back, and if that’s irritating you, that’s fine, just tell me and I’ll leave, but when I post something could you at least awknowledge it? Even if its just to tell me its off topic (though it’s not really, since I’m replying to your post to me about how their’s debate about the existence of vampire’s souls)

  44. Dear Teenage Girl –
    You are not irritating me at all! I’ll be honest – it is an insanely busy time for me at work and I was able to reply to the other posts more quickly than yours because they did not require me to go back to the text, which takes a lot of time. You know the text very well, whereas I have to look things up and refresh my memory.
    I can only take a minute here, but I will say this – the comment about vampires becoming vampires without their consent – that it is not their fault… it implies that becoming a vampire is a bad thing. You can say there is an analogy there to Original Sin. By the sin of Adam and Eve, the human race fell and they passed on to all their descendants the consequence of that sin. Of course, we sin too, so we make it our own.
    Bella chooses to become a vampire. If we extend the analogy (which I think we are invited to do with Meyer’s apple on the cover of Twilight and the text from Genesis about the knowledge of good and evil that Bella gains) – you could say Bella symbolizes Eve. She eats the apple (by choosing to be a vampire, which is bad – it is like choosing to commit the original sin) BUT, in Meyer’s world, she gains ultimate happiness from that choice. She does not suffer the consequences (you will know that I have already written about this in the Twilight-Anti-Christian post).
    Regarding Bella’s soul – even if there is a possibility (and in this case, I would argue a strong possibility) of doing something gravely wrong (like surrendering your soul), you shouldn’t do it. I never see a definitive statement in the Twilight Saga that vampire’s souls are not lost. It is wishful thinking and stays at the level of “here’s hoping!”. Bella operates on a level of denial – the whole series does… it perpetuates a myth that evil choices can produce lasting good effects. That’s all I have time for now…

  45. I have been battling the evils of Harry Potter within my families and friends (Catholic and non-Catholic), and I was blindsided by this new evil: Twilight. What is especially insidious about this witchcraft/pagan/New Age promotion is that there are some so-called and self-appointed leaders in Catholic circles, and especially, Catholic homeschooling circles, who lend their approval to the evils of Harry Potter and Twilight. They justify their promotions by call their critics “judgmental”, “self-righteous”, “uninformed”, “right-wing”, ad nauseum. One simple question needs to be asked: Would Mary read these books to Jesus? Luke 17:1-2 And he said to his disciples: It is impossible that scandals should not come: but woe to him through whom they come. It were better for him, that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should scandalize one of these little ones.

  46. Yay! An anti-Potter person! I always wanted to have a debate on that!

    I mean, defending Twilight is all good and well – but I”m only qualified to defend the books, not the fancrowd… both because I am not a member of it, and because the core members of it tend to be the popular flirty girls that I would, under normal circumstances, disagree with on principle…

    But Harry Potter… there are eight basic tenents to Potter Fandom – reading and writing fanfiction, looking at and drawing fanart, creating and listening to wizard rock, participating on fansites, and attending conferences/ wizard rock concerts. I either have done, or am friends with someone who has done all of the eight.

    So I can not only speak for the books, but for the fandom as well.

    … knowing my luck, Recovering Feminist will not return… I really need to find a good anti-Potter thread….

  47. spesunica

    I’m being a little hypocritical here aren’t I… first I get upset at you for not responding, then I don’t reply… and then I reply to a different person…

    (Sorry about before, but I get a little insecure sometimes)

    Anyhow, I went on a few sites over the weekend, mostly Twilight fanfiction, and discovered something for sure that I had only previously expected. The hardcore fandom is fail.

    Come on! I get that you can’t really have debates about who ought to be in a relationship with whom… actually there isn’t really much left to debate at all, except for the religious aspect of it, which is interesting.

    But seriously… “Edward is wonderful” shouldn’t be the only topic on a fan thread… so in the end, I’ve lost a good deal of enthusiasm over defending Twilight…

  48. I’m so glad my mother-in-law sent this blog to me. I’ve been listening to my 11-year old go on and on about wanting to watch Twilight and how the girls in her class have read it. I have been uncomfortable with the fact that it has vampires as the main characters and had not yet given permission to her. I’m so glad that I have not. I thank spesunica for her intelligent, caring answers to the many young girls who have written defending the series.

    I would also like to address the “it’s only fiction” comment. My 11-year old has and still does soak up all she reads and watches, especially when it grabs her imagination (and she has a very vivid and creative imagination). She plays out the roles, “becomes” the characters and is compeltely obsessed. Yes, it may only be fiction, but it becomes part of her, if even temporarily. And no one can tell me that it won’t shape her in even small ways.

    I will send this on to the mothers of the girls in my daughter’s class (she attends a small Catholic school) and my other friends with daughters. I pray they read it.

  49. Teenage girl –

    Are you joining our ranks!?!

  50. Dear Thankful Mom – I’m glad that this has been helpful to you. God bless.

  51. No, after further consideration, I’m not joining… :)

    I think what’s important to understand in this debate is how to seperate the books from the fandom.

    By that I mean that just because fans draw the conclusion that lusting over Edward is what the book is about doesn’t mean that actually IS what the books are SUPPOSED to be about.

    How people react to the books and what the books are about can be two completley different things. I’m tempted to throw in some snide comments here about Crusades, witch burnings, the Spanish Inquistion, and other assorted crimes… but that’d be rude, and it’s not a very close comparison anyway… Instead, I’ll compare to something that’s runs in a virtual parallel to this.

    Harry Potter (yes, I know, I keep bringing it up, but seriously, it’s one thing I’m both knowledgable about, and ran a very similar path to Twilight…). So. Two kind of semi-different examples of something fan induced that has wide spread popularity.

    The first is an example with relationships. Since Harry Potter starts off at age 11, obviously nobody is romantically involved, but there was a lot of time to speculate about who would eventually wind up with who. Long story short… Harry winds up with Ginny, and the Harry/Hermione people are pissed, and claim that Ron/Hermione and Harry/Ginny both are ridickulus pairing, and that there was no basis for their relationship. Which is STUPID, because the author said such and such married to such and such – and that is FINAL…

    Anyhow, I can’t give exact percentages here, but a sizable portion (like, upwards of 10%… maybe), hold that opinion. And if you go on fanfiction.net, go to Harry Potter, set the characters to Harry and Hermione, set the rating to M, and set catergory to Romance, you will be blown away by the sheer number of graphic, sex filled stories (don’t worry, not reading them much, because they tend to have little to no plot…).

    And of the many things that you could accuse JK Rowling of, having detailed or graphic relationships in her books is not one of them. So the basis for this is not to be found in the books… people just felt like writting about sex… and this in a book where romantic relationships are almost nonexistent.

    So if that happens in a book where romantic relationships are barely on the list of topics covered, I’m not surprised at the path the Twilight fandom took. It just must be understood that the book cannot be held accauntable for whatever the fandom does… If anything, Twilight fans shouldn’t be wearing shirts like “I wouldn’t mind being covered in bruises” or whatever, because that defeats the point that EDWARD IS WITH BELLA. LIke FOREVER. That is the WHOLE POINT. Therefore he is not going to be sleeping around.

    *sighs*

    That was much longer then I meant it to be, so I”ll leave my second example out (though I”ll post it if you’re interested)… if the fact that I keep bringing up Harry Potter is annoying you, I’ll stop bringing that up… (this time it isn’t me being insecure… this blog is about Twilight, and I keep posting about Harry Potter, and though there is a connection, I could understand how that is being annoying, especially since you haven’t read the books)

  52. Actually, I must agree with you about the Twilight fandom. It’s not the content that bothers me, because people should be able to write whatever they want, it’s the quality. I’ve rarely seen such asinine stories and ridiculous plot devices. I wrote a full, 700 word critique of a Jasper/ Alice story supposedly set in the South that had few historical references (and the ones it did contain were wrong) and made no sense. The characters did stupid pointless things for illogical reasons, made lightning-fast, life-altering decisions on a whim, and then sat about angsting for hours.

    The author defended herself by claiming she was from England and not familiar with the historical background–as if the Britpickers don’t freak out when we misspell Theatre in a HP fic! Besides, hasn’t she heard of wikipedia? It’s translated into almost 14 languages–surely she can read one of them!

    Okay, back on-topic.

    Twilight isn’t wholly responsible for the reaction it generates. Sure, it presents the topic, but it doesn’t pursue it. People have to stand up and accept a little personal responsibility. It isn’t sex, drugs, or violence that ruins people’s lives these days; it’s an inability to accept that they are responsible for their actions.

  53. Yay, another fandom person!

    Well, I have a HP fic, and no one’s been picking at my mispellings or inaccuracies – but I’ve been working at least on not being obviously American about it. “Yeah, I’m just chillin’, what’s up” and other such obvious Americanisms… I’ve seen diologue like that in what otherwise would have been a half-way decent story. As well as anachronisims and so on.

    By content problems in Twilight fanfiction, I don’t mean unchaste or whatever. I mean, SEVERE lack of plot. Any plot. Whatsoever. Like – Bella and Edward meet, fall in love…. lots of scenes where they make gooey eyes at each other, and other more graphic scenes. Some more of that. Then a half baked conflict that is settled in under five chapters. Some more gooey eyes. Another conflic in which the author didn’t want to strain the characters. And so on.

    And I was wrong, before, when I said there isn’t much to write about – if you just think about it, there is so much material to work with – Jasper/Alice, Rosalie/Emmet, Carlise/Esme… even future Nessie/Jacob… It’s not that I have anything against Edward/Bella fanfiction, it’s just that it offers very little that isn’t in the books, and part of the point of fanfiction, at least in my point of view, is examine something that didn’t really get much mention in the books.

    And I just followed your off topic bit with my off topic bit.

    So to pretend the post was on topic, I’ll claim that the whole thing was leading up to my agreement with you on people’s inablity to accept that they are responsible for their actions.

  54. Dear Hillary –

    I agree that people need to accept personal responsibility, but I contest that Meyer does as well.

  55. Dear Teenage Girl –
    As you might suspect, I know nothing about fanfiction, but I will try to find out more.

  56. “just because fans draw the conclusion that lusting over Edward is what the book is about doesn’t mean that actually IS what the books are SUPPOSED to be about.”
    Dear Teenage Girl –
    I totally disagree. Twilight tells the tale of Bella who… spends her life lusting over Edward! In a first person narrative. I think that is exactly what it is about, unfortunately – unless you want to throw in Jacob who lusts over Bella, too.

  57. You’re completely ignoring the themes in Twilight: Good vs Evil, Immortality, Temptation, The Son becomes the Father, Life out of Death, Protection of the Innocent, the Created Family–all of these make Twilight much more than a romance novel. In fact, even a romance novel is usually more than a romance novel these days. As the audience becomes more discerning, they need more out of a plot than a begninng, a climax (forgive the pun) and a happy ending.

    As for fandom stuff. Yes, there are some interesting topics that haven’t been explored. I was thinking of writing a short one where Edward comes crawling back to Bella before she jumps off the cliff. I think it would be challenging to try to capture those kinds of emotions–plus I’d just like to see what kind of explanation he would give her.

  58. I don’t think I have ignored those themes on the site – I have written posts regarding the literary themes – but I do think that even those themes – as engaged in – play into a mentality of use over love… which is a fundamental flaw in romance novels. Meyer may try to discuss good vs evil, temptation, etc. – but she doesn’t get it right. Even if Twilight is MORE than a typical romance novel, it is a romance novel none the less – and its MORE is part and parcel of that overarching flaw.

  59. So… I read the articles around here and I don’t get it. You are getting upset by girls growing up? I think that is SICK. You want them to stay young and innocent forever? That is creepy in itself and makes me wonder what kinda yucky thoughts run through your head. What age is appropriate to read this book? I guess I’m more confused now than I was when I first stumbled across this blog. You don’t want girls to read about love/sex in an exciting fictional novel, but you don’t mind them learning about love/sex from another exciting fiction novel that is even MORE packed with craziness and death, and weird kinky sex – THE BIBLE. I’m completely lost.

  60. Excuse me HL, I must point this out, the Bible does not describe loves scenes in detail, in fact there are none recorded at all. In Twilight, Bella wants to have sex with Edward (at least it is implied) before marriage, but under the circumstances, of his thirst for her blood he must resist… as far as I know after the first book the story goes downhill. Blood, gore, death…Fine but heated love scenes? Come on do you really want twelve year old girls (some even younger) reading about this stuff?
    “You don’t want girls to read about love/sex in an exciting fictional novel,” This book is far from appropriate for younger girls…teens in high school are better suited for this, though still the themes are strange.
    “Another exciting fiction novel that is even MORE packed with craziness and death, and weird kinky sex – THE BIBLE. I’m completely lost.” I’d also like to know where you got this strange idea. (Are you trying to be sarcastic with the “exciting” novel part?) The Bible is not fiction.
    A Friend Comments:
    Young? No-everyone grows up.
    Innocent? Yes- “Blessed are the pure in heart, they shall see God.”
    Naïve? No-educate yourself.
    Being innocent is different from being naïve. Girls should know about sex/chastity without being force-fed a secular, atheistic view of it. They should know about the true meaning of sex-procreation. They should be innocent but not naïve.

  61. OK yes you do have the freedom of speech and yes in your opinion and in how you interpriate this book you see it as bad. But actually do you even realize how many girls that I know that refuse to have sex until they are married because of this series? Oh another point is that Edward leaves for like six months in the second book because he thinks this is what is best for her, but as you may have read she is a total disaster without him so technically by him leaving Bella he is hurting her more than being with her. And yes Bella Swan has some other “nice” guys who like her but actually they are more like normal teenagers and just want in her pants or something along those lines and want to take away her innocence. And yes this book is possibly pro-life, well Bella is for the most part, because when she gets pregnant in the fourth book she doesnt let Carlisle or Edward talk her out of having her lil girl and she loves her baby no matter what Rennesme does to Bella while in her womb. Another point to get to is that of how she describes how she feels when she is around Edward and what she wants. So what! Girls are going to find this someplace else but there isnt going to be no Edward to stop them and say it isnt right. There is going to be instead, a guy who is saying with his body language go ahead do this I want this just as bad as you do. And I hope you do realize Bella didnt really lose her innocence until AFTER she was married which is pretty good compared to some young ladies who prefer to sleep with their boyfriends or random guys every night or weekend. Hitting another couple of your points on Bella and her obsession with Edward and Edward and his vampirism. Bella isnt pathetic because she falls for this vampire who is now a vegitarian, so to speak. Do you honestly realize that Edward hates what he is? and that if it were up to him he would be dead right now. Yes Edward does try to commit suicide in like the second book but the only reason he even tries that is because he thinks he has lost the love of his life. Bella and Edward NEED each other as much as Edward needs blood to live and Bella needs food and water to live. And hitting on your point about more girls liking twilight than guys it is probably because guys are afraid to say they like this stuff and think they are being “manly” by saying its stupid. Personally my boyfriend loves the series, mostly because of the wolves, but he does see how come i love the series and many of my guy friends have read the series and saw the movie and love it. My boyfriend is my Edward and I am his Bella, he has even used this reference before. Please really look at what I have said about these points of yours. They offend many and yes i realize i offend many by saying this too but I am one of the people you have offended and many of my closest friends too. So I speak not only for myself but for all of the girls and guys of whom love twilight to no end.

  62. Oh, the challenge “…if you dare” has never rung so loudly in my ears. But…dare I must.

    First, a couple of admissions. I have NOT waded through the 61 (so far) comments here. Unfortunately, the five or six I scanned were dense paragraphs that rocketed from topic to topic. Too old to hang, I am afraid.

    Second, I have read all four books, as have my wife, my oldest (23-year-old, discerning a religious vocation) daughter, and my 16-year-old (annoyingly teen-aged) daughter. I read all four before seeing the movie, and have seen the movie once, and started it on DVD.

    I heartily disagree with your analysis of the books. If that analysis is based on a reading of all four novels, then I commend you for at least having given it all a shot; we may agree to disagree. If it’s based on a reading of Twilight the book and viewing Twilight the movie, then your analysis makes more sense (and is even. to a point, correct.

    I wholeheartedly agree that the marketing of the movie has done a great disservice to young girls all over. I have a 12 year old daughter (and for the record, we have an 8 year old too, which makes, count ‘em y’all, FOUR girls in my house plus a wife of 25 years, and two dogs; thank god the little dog is a boy, or I would have NO ONE to talk to); I would NEVER allow her to read the books OR to see the movie. The themes addressed in both are too mature for her. She understands that there will be NO EXCEPTIONS to this, and is fine with the decision.

    That being said, I think the books are very much a morality play, whether Stephanie Meyer meant to write them that way or not. Jacob doesn’t “lust” after Bella; i n fact, his is a ridiculously puppy-dog infatuation until the changes come to him later in the series (won’t spoil the plot for anyone who hasn’t read past Twilight). But his devotion to her is absolute, and chaste, except for the rare occasion that he makes a (bad) decision out of emotion instead of logic. There is nothing sexual about Jacob’s attraction as depicted in the books (or in the movie, as far as I remember).

    As for Edward, I look at his reluctance to get close to Bella for fear of injuring her body as an analog for fearing injuring her *soul* through sexual contact with her. Over and over, he is depicted as the “strong one” (how often are boys EVER depicted that way, or found that way in real life?). I look at the Cullen family’s decision to resist their nature and eat as they do as an analog of our nature as Christians running counter to our Original Sin-wounded natures. And I see Bella as lost, but trying to find herself.

    I didn’t find any of the four books oversexualized (at least, not for a young adult audience, which is the level to which I would restrict these books). In fact, I have been giving thought to how to incorporate some of the themes I found in the books into our chastity education program here in the Diocese of Memphis.

    We can disagree. I am certain we already do. But I am willing to listen to any reasoned analysis of the books that is truly based on a reading of all four. I have discussed this book with all three young adult/adult women in my family, and we agree that they are MORE than appropriate for my younger two when they are older.

    Lest anyone attempt to cubby-hole me as one of those “liberals”, Let Me Identify Myself. I have been a deacon for over 9 years in our diocese. I have four children, as I stated above. My wife and I have practiced Natural Family Planning for most of our marriage. My oldest is discerning a vocation (to a conservative order or other organization. ALL of my children are being either home-schooled, or educated in Catholic schools (on purpose). I just finished teaching a course on General Moral Principles based on the San Juan Catholic Apologetics series (very well-received).

    SO please don’t write off what I say as the ravings of some nut. SO…let
    s talk!

  63. Two additional comments:

    I did go back up and scan some earlier posts. (Watch!)

    Nothing in the series makes me think that vampires have lost their immortal souls. Vampires can die. And they apparently do with some frequency!

    But there is nothing that woud indicate that they are *soulless*. Are there some who will end up in Hell? Oh youbetcha! I am SURE James got a free pass straight to the Hot Place, complete with wailing and gnashing of teeht! I think victoria jined him after SHE “fell apart”.

    But through what mechanism would ANY creature (and they all are creatures of a benevolent, loving Father, since they were ALL born of woman like us) lose his/her immortal soul, other tan by CHOOSING EVIL OVER GOOD, and TURNING AWAY FROM GOD? Be good, profess faith, go to Heaven. Don’t…Go TO Hell. Simple.

    SO unless we truly believe that there is NO SALVATION outside of full communion with the Catholic Church (which the Church doesn’t teach), then…who knows? That was left uncovered by the text.

    As for vampire-ness being an analog for Original Sin…Nah, don’t think so. Not sure how to explain it, but I don’t think so. Otherwise, how to we account for the other Original-Sin-based actions depicted inthe book (the four young men in Seattle, for example).

    Anyway, people need to go to be. Bye!

  64. omg! thankful mom! you havnt even read the series! ur daughter wants to read one of the books that is going to become a classic and you wont let her read it! do you even know what happens to Bella and Edward?! ok you should check out the whole story before you decide from just one blog that your daughter shouldn’t read the books. Please reconcider this because the books are wonderful ive reread all 4 of them at the vry least 6 times and still dont find nothing wrong with them and my dad has read them and even approves of my 11 yr old sister of reading them and watching the movie. My aunt is even letting her 8 yr old daughter watch the movie and my aunt is reading her twilight aloud. Yes some parts of the series are probably not really all that appropriate for my lil cousin but it is definately appropriate anybody 10+ Thank You for your time.
    – You will be hated by all because of my name. But the ones who endure to the end, he will be saved. ~Mk. 13:13

  65. Dear spesunica,
    I was really discouraged after reading a few of the newer posts. I figured you probably were too, so I just wanted to say – I’m still with you! And so is one of my best friends, who is one of the best and holiest people that I know. It’s the hardest when otherwise good, upright people are mislead on issues like these. I believe that Twilight is at best unhealthy, and at worst sick, disturbing, and demonic. I would NEVER let my children read it. God Bless you and thank you SO much for standing up for what’s right, even when it seems like everyone disagrees with you.

  66. Dear Gianna –
    I appreciate your encouragement. Since the beginning of this year (2009) a lot of darkness has fallen upon the United States – our leadership positions are being filled by people who do not value all human life. Pope John Paul II referred to a dramatic conflict between the Culture of Life and the Culture of Death, which he defined as good vs. evil. In other words – the Culture of Death is evil… and as the United States (and the world) embrace the Culture of Death more and more, we become more acclimated to evil. Rather than operating in a framework of objective moral norms based on truth, we find ourselves in a world which has embraced a subjective morality based on relativism and proportionalism. People are really rationalizing that it is better to kill their own child in the womb than bring him or her into a financially unstable world. Read here.
    I think things are going to become more confusing as seeming good and evil is melded together, and we are going to have to make principled choices. Let’s pray for each other. God bless.

  67. Dear Spesunica,
    Please explain this to me. This is a bit off topic but oh well. I am teased constantly at school. I go to a private CATHOLIC school that supposidly has no bullying, thats a bunch of bs. Anyway our school lets us have the Twilight books and i am teased because, yes believe it or not im not a normal kid, im gothic and yet i have read the series. They say that just because i am gothic do i love the series and that stuff. If you think everything is about being holy your wrong. Ok so the books have some stuff in there that everyone feels ok and just because i am gothic doesnt mean i dont feel the same way too!

  68. Dear Beejai –

    I know how bad bullying can be – even in private Catholic schools. Unfortunately, our culture is growing worse. What did Jesus say? “Love one another as I have loved you”. That is a Commandment – a new Commandment – from Jesus. But a lot of people today don’t care about Commandments. They don’t think anyone should tell them what to do – not even God. They want to be “free” to do what they want any old time. Well, what happens as a consequence? When we don’t follow God’s Commandments, when we do whatever WE want, we’re jerks, frankly – selfish jerks. God gives us rules so that we know how to love – because God is love. He wants us to love others the way He loves them, so He shows us how. That is why He died on the Cross for us – because He loves us and was willing to give Himself to save us. So, I am really, really sorry about your bullying experience. All it means is that Christians aren’t living up to their Baptismal call. Everything IS about being holy. You need to be the one to show them how to do it. Are you going to Mass on Sunday and praying? Do you study your Faith? See if you can use this opportunity to be as great a Catholic as you can be.
    A quick question for you – when you say you are gothic, are you speaking simply about the way you dress? What do you mean when you say gothic?
    God bless. I will pray for you today.

  69. Dear Beejai,

    Yes, believe it or not, I can make a decision about what is good and what is evil for my 11-year old daughter without delving into it very deeply. I would not let her do many things even though I have not experienced them. Drugs, the occult, pornography, etc. As for my having read only one blog, when I first started I was very sceptical. I am actually quite intelligent myself and have grown over the years in wisdom and faith. I found spesunica to be very intelligent and one who shares the same values and faith as I do, so I trust her, just as I trust the teachings of our Church leaders, both past and present. I have also found very little strength in the arguments of those opposing her views on Twilight, except for perhaps Deekin Chip (and I’m anxiously waiting for spesunica’s rebuttal – I’m sure it will be very enlightening and interesting).

    Now, as for this book beoming a classic? I have also enjoyed reading teenage girl’s postings and it seems to me by many others’ postings that the book isn’t so well written that it will become a classic. I think it’s simply a fad, at best. At worse, it’s a reflection of a society that has blurred the lines separating good/evil and quality/junk.

    My daughter is at an age where she is very vulnerable and it is my mission to ensure her safety and preserve her innocence for as long as possible. And for HL, no I don’t wish my beautiful daughter to remain competely innocent for ever, at least not in the way you were referring to. I pray that she finds a wonderful young man with whom she can love with all her heart. I pray that they marry and enjoys all that married life can offer. But that she could remain innocent of the evil and pain that is in this world forever, it would make me very happy. As this is not likely, then yes, let her remain innocent as long as absolutely possible.

  70. Dear Thankful Mom –

    I agree 100% with what you have written here. Also – thank you for reminding me of Deekin Chip’s comment. When I think responses are going to take some time, I leave them until my next update – but in the case of Deekin Chip, I forgot to get back to him. I will be writing a new post today, addressing those issues.

  71. Dear Spesunica,
    I go to mass on sunday’s when i am with my dad if i am with my mum i do not, its a long story. By gothic i mean i am gothic. I dress gothic, my music is gothic, my art is gothic, my essays are about goths, etc. but what people do not get is that most goths ARE NOT suicidal, just misunderstood. Anymore questions and i will answer gladly.

  72. Dear Beejai –

    I think people mischaracterize others all the time by the way they dress, etc.
    Why do you think most goths are misunderstood?

  73. Dear Spesunica,
    Goths are misunderstood because people are afraid of accepting differences in people. It isnt normal to them so they are afraid to accept us. It is pathetic. I try to accept everyone with an open heart. Shucks i even have satanic friends (they are not goths might i add). We are misunderstood because we are different and possibly for what we like. By what we like I mean some like vampires, some are obsessed with death, some just like music and love the way it sounds to them. We are still humans (unfortunately) and just like you (in a weird sense).

  74. Dear Beejai –

    You seem aware of the dignity in all human persons. You are just like me – not in a weird way, but in a very real way. Every human person has infinite worth because each of us was created in the image and likeness of God. God willed each of us into being. Each of us is willed, each of us is loved, and each of us is necessary. Every human person is worthy of love. Perhaps you can be an instrument of light to those friends who are deceived by satanic things. Assure them that they are loved by God. Some people have never heard that.

    God bless you.

  75. Dear Spesunica, yeah its a working progress with trying to get my friends to convert. But I WILL NOT shove my religion down their throats. I turned to satanism and then after that atheism before i turned to catholism because i felt people where craming their religion down my throat. I really regret that decision but you can see what craming a religion down someones throat can do to them. And the way i show my friends to believing in God is just by always being something stable for them. Always their for them, always a rock they can lean on.

  76. Yes Beejai.
    People need to know that you love them. Pope Paul VI said that people listen to teachers only if they are witnesses.
    If you speak of a loving God, it will only make sense if you are a witness of His love.

  77. Spesunica,
    What do you think I’m doing? Sitting on my ass and being average to them? HAHA!!!! HECK NO! I try my best to show people the right way and that i really do love them. Especially my friends. “Do not save your loving speaches for your friends ’till they are dead. Do not write them on their tombstones, speak them rather now instead.” Anna Cummins

  78. Good job, Beejai.

  79. I just couldn’t resist calling myself that…

    When Twilight first came out, I paid it almost zero attention, just another silly romance novel about vampires. Then it turned into an obsession with so many people, one which I noticed rather slowly, I should add. It wasn’t until Eclipse came out that I realized how rabid people were for these books. (note: I only use these words such as “obsession”, “rabid”… because that is how fans describe themselves on their forums)

    I’m a 22 year old guy, so I’m not in school anymore, and I’m not naturally inclined towards this type of fiction, thus it took a while for me to realize the broadness and depth of this latest obsession. And to be honest, at first I just wrote it off as another fan craze. Perhaps it is just that. But after reading different girl’s reactions to it, and how it has “changed their life!”, I begin to wonder. Breaking up with your boyfriend, hiding your obsession from your husband, screaming at strangers because they don’t like the book, not being able to go a day with reading something about Twilight… all over a fictional character!?

    Even if there is nothing inherantly wrong in the books (which the author of this blog has pointed out many things that are wrong), the very fact of the obsessive tendencies people seem to fall into after reading it should be enough to warn us away.

    “All things are lawful, but I will not be mastered by anything.”

    Thank you SpesUnica for posting this blog… both my girlfriend (whom I plan to marry as soon as we’re through college) and I have agreed not to read these books. She had expressed interest early on but I discouraged her after seeing the reaction in people around me… now I have affirmation that we made the right choice. After reading a few of the excerpts you posted, I was grateful that I had discouraged our reading it. We’ve both had weakness to texts like that in the past, and neither of us wants to open the door to that again.

  80. Thanks, “Vampire Hunter”. ;)
    I am glad the information has proved helpful to you and your girlfriend and I am really happy to hear that you both are supporting each other in the decision to avoid this kind of “entertainment”. I think that speaks volumes about the love you have for one another and the quality of your communication. Keep it up! There are couples twice your age who don’t have that level of maturity. May God help you to grow in love and fidelity daily through His grace.
    God bless you!

  81. Stupid fans…. they’ve managed to ruin everything. Everything, I tell you!

    At this point, I have exactly one friend left who still likes Twilight as much as I do, everyone else got so ticked at the fandom that they started hating the books. So I felt that I should officially throw in my surrender.

    Though just to let you know, from half my friends the problem wasn’t the the book was Anti Christian, the problem was that the vampires were sparkly sissies that didn’t know what proper vampires ought to act like.

    Supposedly (haven’t had the chance to read it yet), Rice’s “Interview with a Vampire” is what a real vampire story is supposed to look like… that has the proper amount of blood instead of all this lovey-dovey stuff.

  82. I am ready to sell my soul to be with Edward Cullen for ever (not teeneger at all, 40+)

  83. *headslam*

  84. Alright, I’m officially on the anti-Twilight team.

  85. Dear Teenage Girl –
    I hope that is not because you are too engrossed in the worse stuff! :)

  86. Dear Mina –
    I hope you repent.

  87. Depends on what you mean by worse stuff. :P

    Nothing about vampires, I’m into non-fiction at the moment, but I’m pretty sure that Dawkins’s “the god delusion” probably falls into your category of ‘worse stuff’.

    Anyway, what finally made me anti-Twilight was my little sister (age 11), wanting to read it. I’m a bit OCD about protecting her, and so I decided that if the thought of her reading it made me more than a little concerned, then maybe it wasn’t such a harmless book after all.

    It’s also decidedly anti-feminist, something which I really didn’t see before.

  88. I am glad you are OCD about protecting your little sister! She deserves good guidance.
    If you are going to be fair, you also need to read “Answering the New Atheism: Dismantling Dawkins’ Case Against God” by Scott Hahn and Benjamin Wiker.
    You should also look at “Faith of the Fatherless: The Psychology of Atheism” by Paul C. Vitz. I think you would find it very, very interesting.
    You are correct that Twilight is anti-feminist – I prefer to say anti-female – although Meyer herself claims it is not anti-female, but anti-human.
    I think it is both anti-female and anti-human.

  89. *blinks*

    The bit I hate about myself is that me reading those books you just recommended is inevitable. And then I’m going to lose my nice comfortable atheism, be agnostic or theist for a bit, and then something will make me go atheist again and repeat the same cycle all over again. Running around in circles is decidedly unproductive.

  90. Yes, Teenage Girl. At some point you will have to make a decision. It will require an act of trust, which will be extraordinarily difficult for you given the atmosphere you grew up in. That’s why I think the Vitz book will be especially interesting for you. It is available on Amazon as is the book by Hahn and Wiker. So is “Faith and Certitude” by Thomas Dubay – another one that is good to read if you struggle with atheism and agnosticism. I will pray for you – that you receive a special grace to believe.

  91. Repent: for what? To be in hands of the man who has strong young, perfect body, emotional maturity of 40+, wisdom of 70+. Of course, you should be immortal to combine all this in one person, at least 108 years old vampire. So, there is no such a man between humans, but still we can dream that one day our prince ( vampire) will come ….

  92. Dear Mina –
    You had said: “I am ready to sell my soul to be with Edward Cullen for ever (not teeneger at all, 40+)”
    But Christ said in Matthew 16:26 – “For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?” Anything that would be considered more important than the salvation of your own soul is an idol.

  93. But Edward Cullen is an idol, dream for any woman.

  94. Edward Cullen is not a a dream for any woman – and the fact that he could be an idol is sad – pathetic, actually.

  95. At least he is my dream
    1. incredibly gorgeous.
    2. caring and protective.
    3. has a sense of humor but is serious at all the right times
    4. would rather have you leave him to be with another man if it was for your happiness.
    5. would do anything to keep you safe.
    6. gives you his most valuable keep sakes.
    7. makes sure you know that you are all he thinks about

  96. Dream on, Mina…

    I did for a long time (not about Twilight, but other things). But I hope that you someday come the realization that dreams of that sort are meaningless and without substance.

    To be honest, in the past I would have thought you were joking. Heh… I wouldn’t mind finding out that you were. ;) But that’s just me…

    Ironically (and sadly), a lot of girls who are hooked on Edward wouldn’t recognize the type of man who would truly be able to treat them the way they are longing for.

  97. On the anecdote about the eight year olds asking Robert Pattinson to change them into vampires. This is not the fault of a book, but the fault of parents who haven’t taken the time to teach their children common sense or the difference between fantasy and reality.

    On the statement that the story is anti-Christian because Edward wants to kill Bella. Edward’s blood lust is symbolic of sexual desire. On the surface, the story is about a vampire trying to resist the urge to kill a girl. Allegorically it is about a young man resisting the urge to give in to sexual impurity. Yes, Edward is the “world’s most dangerous predator.” This is what comes natural to him as a vampire. In parallel, young man naturally want to have sex with young women. This is what comes natural to them. The book is about taking the higher road and not giving into the demands of the flesh.

    For the comment that Bella is weak : Bella is an assertive young woman who gets exactly what she wants. Does it make her weak somehow that what she wants is to be with the man that she loves? Does love equate with weakness? She must also fight to have her baby. Edward would have likely forced her into an abortion which she passionately resists even at the risk of her own life. She knows that she will die giving birth but goes ahead with the pregnancy anyway to protect the life of her child. And by the end of the series, it is Bella, not Edward or any other male character who protects the entire Cullen family from annihilation. It is no coincidence that her special gift as a vampire is the ability to project a physical shield. Women have always been traditionally considered to be protective in nature, and Bella is no exception. She is always willing to put the safety of her friends and others first, quick to do whatever she can to protect them at personal risk to herself.

  98. You seem to suggest young (catholic) women should be isolated from the existing cultural contexts; making pariahs of them (in keeping with catholic tradition, perhaps). Twilight is popular because it reflects the current ‘cultural’ identity of its audience. Cultural attitudes evolve. Even the restrictive, controlling dogma of religion is dragged up to date from time to time.

    Consider the old testament preaching’s on menstruation. Today, a person who taught girls their periods were sinful and unclean would rightly be condemned. Cultural attitudes evolve.

    Consider then, the new testament attitude to equality. Misogyny abounds, one pertinent example might be:

    Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. Timothy 2:12

    All right minded people now, rightly, view such attitudes as unjust; the attitudes of ignorant sheep herders. Cultural attitudes evolve, no matter how hard some resist — a plethora of religious groups exist to fight women’s rights.

    You wrote: “The hope is to give a voice to the truth about genuine femininity – so beautifully safeguarded by the Catholic Church.”

    Leaving aside the church’s historic (and current) deplorable attitude to women… Who defines ‘truth’ about genuine femininity?
    What is it you fear about young women finding their own voice? If any such thing as ‘truth’ even exists, what is wrong with young women growing and shaping that ‘truth’ themselves, within the existing cultural context?

  99. I was appalled to turn on the computer and find on the Catholic Exchange a scathing article belittling the Twilight series. Honestly, it seems that we have a lot to learn. I used to accept these reviews without question, because I didn’t have the will to invest the time to find out for myself. My daughter came home wanting to read the books, see the first movie, calling my approach narrow minded. So eventually we watched the movie at home, and in order to read the books we had to read them out loud to each other. I expected to be able to prove to her how evil the reading material was. However, I found that the books were more than I expected.

    There are numerous points on which to enter into a discussion with anyone, but especially teens on spiritual values, morality and just relationships in general. First of all the premise of the Cullen family’s life is based on the faith and experience of the patriarch Carlilse. His personal faith led him to abhor what he had become,and yet he refused to live as a monster and take human lives to survive. His virtuous lifestyle is the glue that holds the Cullen family together. And Bella is as in love with the family as she is with Edward, noted by the reappearance of Alice toward the end of New Moon. Bella’s character is the product of a broken family and she has had to be the parent figure more often than not in her life. She is self effacing and responsible and willing die to spare her parents lives if that is necessary. If she were seduced by evil, she would have chosen to run away with Edward in Twilight and not cared what the price for her parents would be .

    As far as Edward is concerned, he is not a typical teenage boy. He has had ample opportunities in his nearly 100 years of existence to live an indulgent live of sexual immorality, but he does not. He is even content with the idea of living out his life as
    Bella’s soul mate while she is still human until she dies of old age, stating that it wouldn’t matter to him what she looked like as an old woman knowing that they would most likely never be able to have a sexual relationship. His devotion is impeccable. As for his visits to her room, he is the perfect gentleman, he never touches her inappropriately, he never watches her undress. He often sits in the rocking chair across the room watching her sleep and (if you read Midnight Sun”s rough draft on the author’s website) thinks about how he can love her at great personal cost to himself. He literally has to go against his darker side, his greatest desires, which is the way her blood sings to him, to love her and to choose to treat her with chilvarous love. When he does relent and agrees to her becoming a vampire it is because he doesn’t want to loose her to the dangers that surround them.

    Bella chooses the transformation because she has found the family and the love that make her feel whole. It is a sad and ironic that Christians are raising such a fuss about a series that could really open discussions with young and not so young alike on subjects of immortaliy, purgatory, pennace, chastity, self denial, self donative love, because it is written as a fantasy about vampires. What about the void that has left so many hungry for the love and acceptance that Bella finds with Edward and his family, due to divorce, to parents who are lost in their own worries or careers, like Bella’s parents. Not to mention the lack of spiritual formation we give our young people, Bella has never thought about her soul, or religion or much about what it would mean to loose her immortal soul. It is the one thing that she and Edward discuss most heatedly in the first three books.

    In the fourth book there is the message that is very pro life and heart warming once the baby is born. At the end of the fourth book there is a monologue by one of the vampires asked to witness for the Cullens which in my opinion sums up the deeper message of the series and the reason that Bella and Edward’s relationship is so timeless…..since I cannot remember the words I can only paraphrase that he calls the Cullens a family and not a coven. He notes that their strange lif e of self denial has afforded them the opportunity to form true bonds of love and loyalty and that these gifts alone are enough to intimidate the Voluturi, let alone the gifts of Edward, Alice, Bella and Jasper, and also Renessme.

    I feel that there is an enormous opportunity in these novels to enter into discussions with those who are smitten by the story line. Because of narrow minded reviews some people will always look upon these books as evil and people like myself as half hearted Catholics. That is sad and a gross injustice to those who see the deeper meanings in what is a beautiful story about love, family and the sanctity of human life.

  100. Dear Laurie –
    I would be interested to hear how you explain or defend the contents of “A Response to Deekin Chip” – view here. I avoid quoting the more problematic contents verbatim on this site because I think they are an occasion of sin – however, I have posted some in this particular entry (with warnings) because A Deacon had written to me also having very positive things to say about the Twilight Saga. I would like you to have a look at some of the passages in the Response to Deekin Chip and tell me – who read those passages out loud when you read the books at home with your daughter? You? Your daughter? And would you have read them out loud as a skit at a talent show? If there were only adults around? As a family reading night? If your Pastor had stopped in for a visit? How about letting your daughter read them out loud with your husband? Whatever we do in the dark will be revealed in the light… would you read these things aloud in the light of day?
    God bless.

  101. In response to your response to the Deacon and myself, yes I read those passages out loud to my 14 year old daughter, we talked about the reality that if she were to let a boy get that close to her, it would be all but impossible for them to resist such temptation. I admired the character of Edward who hearing the thoughts of Jacob and other teenage boys was able to feel disgust and not just jealousy at the lustful tone of their thoughts. He has a chaste love for Bella which is proven again and again, it is enough for him to know that she is alive. If she had chosen to move on without him he says over and over again that he would have let her, at great personal sacrifice.
    In my opinion the emotions that the author touches are valuable in and of themselves to help us to reflect on what true love feels like as opposed to lust. In the fourth book when Jacob imprints on the baby Renesme, he discovers the type of love that Edward has always had for Bella. His lusting after Bella is gone. And he makes it clear that he does not lust after the baby, he only wants her to be happy and know she is loved.

    Yes the passages you quoted were very sensual, and my daughter was somewhat embarrassed by them, which I was happy to see because it speaks to her innocence when many girls her age are long past such innocence. Neither of us felt that the books should be marketed to teens younger than 14. And I do feel that they should be read with parental feedback. My younger 12 year old daughter has no interest in the books, but has watched the movie and I will be taking them to see New Moon.

    I agree with the Deacon’s comments, except that I do feel Jacob lusts after Bella in the third book, and the first part of the last book. I perosonally did not like the Jacob character as we read New Moon. I found New Moon the most difficult and emotional book to read. Bella is also almost an adult and I emphasised this with my daughter, she turns 19 after her transformation into a vampire. She accepts her father;s parental limitations outwardly at least since Edward still visits her in her room when the father is asleep. She does use the threat of being old enough to live on her own when the father tries to limit Edward from coming to their home. For the most part even her rebelliion is respectful by any standard. By 18 there are very few young adults that would give their parents as much authority as Bella gives Charlie. Again it is pathetically sad that her parents only try to step up to the plate when she is for all intents and purposes an adult. Are all the moral lessons we teach our children to come from the Bible or the Catechism alone? I do think that if there were such a thing as vampires that those that would have the audacity to choose to live like the Cullens especially Carlisle and Edward would definitely have a shot at heaven. I especially love the character of Carlisle, I would like to read a book written of his journey. The Cullen family defers to him although each in their own right are more than old enough to live by their own values and beliefs. I also liked how they treated the subject of free will in the fourth book when Alice and Jasper leave without much of an explanation. Carlisle is not angry, bitter, resentful, he trusts that Alice is doing what she knows is necessary, kind of like 1Cor.13.

    Another theme that is carried out in the books is the strength of married love, we are looking at centuries not decades between the Cullen couples. you can say what you want about the books, you can find evil everywhere, there was an outcry against the Passion of the Christ movie like I could hardly believe. When I watched the movie 4 different times at the theatre I was impressed by the crowds it drew, the lives it changed. I was also surprised that it was rated R because I think it was realistic but not over done. People who opposed that movie are uncomfortable with the reality of the Crucifixion and the necessity of it. But there were no shortage of people doing what you are doing to Twilight trying to scare people away from something out of tunnel vision.
    The spiritual and moral themes are in the series Twilight and you may not like the genre they are presented in, and they are not necessarily presented in pristine Catholic theological terms,the book was authored by a Mormon, it’s up to the reader to invest the time and reflection as with any book to glean its lessons.
    In the meantime all of us who have taken the time to engage you in conversation are entiltled to our opinions as you are to yours. Because a theme is presented doesn’t mean it is the final word on a subject I do remain covinced that this series has the potential to reach people who would not otherwise be willing to reflect on some of these themes.

  102. Bless you and thank you Laurie. You so eloquently said much of what I have been trying to say. I am sad that some of my fellow Catholics have cut themselves off from this very good gift, and are trying to poison other people’s minds as well. It is so heartwarming to me to read what you have to say. The only correction I would make is that the very pro life message begins BEFORE the baby is born, when Bella does everything she can to protect the life she feels growing within her.

  103. Thanks Rebecca,
    I agree, it was just getting so late and I feel I could write a book about this myself. In fact I might just do that!

  104. Dirty, filthy girls. Listen to Spes… or go to hell!

  105. Well, that is a mature comment if I’ve ever heard one!

    I am not afraid of loosing my faith and I see many drifters in society who will never listen to the Gospel when it is spoken from such a narrow minded fear mongering point of view.

    There is more goodness in the character of Carlisle Cullen who respects a person’s free will, like our Creator and Redeemer do than these narrow minded posts.

  106. Laurie. The gospel spoken from a narrow minded fear mongering point of view?.. Mine or spesunica’s?

    Either way, the problem you have is that faith contains no methodology to measure validity. The conclusion you draw from your personal credulity can not be shown to be any more valid than Spesunica’s, or mine or Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re’s… or the muslim fundamentalist or the westboro baptists. Faith validates all and any belief, from the benign to the repugnant.

    The point is Laurie, as eloquent and measured as your views are, by relaying on faith to make your point, you have no way of determining that which is most true.

    The only discussion here is to what degree catholics should burden young developing minds with the baggage of original sin.

    To any degree, it’s abuse.

  107. I had no idea that it was against the Catholic faith to use literature to reflect on our fallen human nature. Even John Paul the Great was an actor and loved to debate and dialogue with people who were searching for truth and faith.

    These books are works of creativity, that touch on themes that are reflective of some of our values as Chrisitans, and some issues that are, like it or not prevalent in our society such as lack of spiritual grounding among our youth which is directly traced back to lack of parental witness to any form of spiritual life. This leaves the majority of kids wandering and empty. Even kids who are in our Catholic schools, especially by the time they get to high school. My point is that simply the books can become teachable moments because the subjects are broched in a non-judmental way through a media the kids are open to reflecting on.

    My daughter just got a 93% in her mid term religion class at a Catholic high school. She has a high degree of openness and understanding for the faith and she is a witness to her friends some of whom have had almost no religious upbringing. The media hype around the movies and the actors is what it is. The books have more insight and depth, obviously I am not alone in my opinion.

    You are the one who said I have to listen to this spesunica person or be condemned to hell…I am merely taking exception to your judgement of me personally. I would rather discuss the story line with my daughter(s) and use the opportunity to talk and to reflect on the themes i have already discussed.

  108. This is extraordinary – Twilight supporters fighting amongst themselves. Settle down folks.

    First – if you had seen any of Will’s other comments, Laurie, you would have understood that he likes to say negative things about Christians.
    He was making a joke about listening to me – being facetious. He wasn’t really saying you were going to hell. “This spesunica person” hasn’t even said it either. I have said that I think the books are an occasion of sin, though. I hope you don’t write a book encouraging others to read the Twilight saga. If you do, you will bear great responsibility if your readers are led astray by them. It was Christ HImself who made the comment about the millstones.

    It is good that your daughter did so well on her mid-term. I hope she lives a full sacramental life and enjoys prayer. She is at a great point in her life to look at her talents and see how she can serve God with the gifts He has given her. If she was embarrassed by parts of the books, I agree that is a good sign. Children have a latency period that the Church says should not be disturbed. I hope those words and the images they evoked were quickly banished from her mind.

    I am not going to spend my time here debating Will. Will, but that’s not what I am here for. Plenty of websites and blogs could address your statements at great length. Problems like Wills tend to be in the will (sorry, Will – it’s your will) rather than in the intellect. I suspect Will has suffered quite a bit in his life, and I am sorry about that. Anger usually comes from suffering – often unjust suffering.

    Rebecca has been a visitor for ages. She comes back regularly looking for someone to say that Twilight is ok and then says things like Twilight is “a gift”… she knows how much I disagree with her, so there is no point in going over it all again.

    God bless you all.

  109. So is it true, Will, that truth doesn’t exist – or is that merely your opinion?

  110. Laurie wrote: “I had no idea that it was against the Catholic faith to use literature to reflect on our fallen human nature.”
    Sorry, Laurie, you completely misunderstand my point. Contrary to being against faith to reflect upon anything, my point was that faith – being non measurable – ‘validates’ all and any belief equally… equally fallacious, but equal all the same.
    Laurie wrote: “These books are works of creativity, that touch on themes that are reflective of some of our values as Christians…”
    To be clear, I am atheist. None of the gods, goddesses and supernatural entities of the past, present or future affords any consideration in my day to day life – the same as you, only I go one god further.
    What then are ‘Christian values’? That menstruation is sinful and unclean as described in Leviticus? Is the misogyny preached throughout the New Testament an example of ‘christian values’? How about catholic law being above the welfare of a nine year old rape victim as decreed by cardinal Re? Are protestant christians the embodiment of ‘christian values’? Or the Westboro Baptists? Et cetera, ad nauseum.
    Your reasoned opinions of the Twilight series (I’m personally indifferent, but basically agree with your appraisal) stand on simple humanist values – values that, not being reliant on faith, can be measured and judged against other opinion. By placing your conclusions into the context of ‘faith’ and ‘Christian values’ you validate all other conclusions, including the most repugnant… The bible teaches X, but then the bible also teaches Y. Though both may contradict each other, faith holds both as ‘true’ simply by assertion.
    I contend you and your daughters arrive at your reasoned (and commendable) understanding despite your religious beliefs, not because of them. Imagine if all children were given the chance to develop, to define themselves, free from religious indoctrination. One day we may see a generation (of women) free from the burdened of the burka or the guilt of original sin.
    As an aside; you wrote “[my daughter] has a high degree of openness and understanding for the faith and she is a witness to her friends some of whom have had almost no religious upbringing.” If a jew, moslem protestant etc. acted as ‘witness’ to your daughter, in the same way she has to her friends of a different upbringing, would you speak of them as glowingly in terms of ‘openness and understanding’?

  111. Spesunica wrote: “This is extraordinary – Twilight supporters fighting amongst themselves. Settle down folks.”

    Twilight supporters? Ha! Wouldn’t you love that… as if that would lend any weight to your argument. Flagrant hubris on your part.

    Spesunica wrote: “I suspect Will has suffered quite a bit in his life, and I am sorry about that. Anger usually comes from suffering – often unjust suffering.”
    Classic. Any person who does not see the world from your narrow perspective, any person who questions your beliefs, must have some personality defect or suffer some mental anguish. Here is the real issue. People entrust you — with this attitude — with the inquiring, developing minds of their children. No wonder catholic guilt is such a pernicious meme.

    So lets pretend ad hominem is not a fallacious argument… let’s put the same charge back on you. What is your real objection to twilight? Was your childhood so wretched that you can’t bear to see young women shaping and enjoying theirs? Or are you angry at vampires?

    Spesunica wrote: “So is it true, Will, that truth doesn’t exist – or is that merely your opinion?”

    Depends on what you mean by truth. You still need to define this ‘truth’(about genuine femininity) you mentioned. You’ll notice I emphasised what I saw as the ambiguity of the word with quotes, while you were quite specific. You must have a clear definition, or how would you know if a child in your care is complying or suffering some mental deficiency? Is this ‘truth’ about genuine femininity that menstruation is sinful and unclean? That women are subordinate? Etc. You get my point by now surely.

  112. Spesunica. Deleting posts you’d rather not deal with is one thing, but leaving your question, as though unanswered, shows a very high degree of dishonesty.

    Resorting to revisionism to prop up your beliefs is one thing, taking it upon yourself to decide whether other contributors should be allowed to address an issue raised (in this case a direct response to Laurie) is arrogantly and patronisingly presumptuous.

    In your introduction you use the word ‘discussion’, you also said the issues I have raised can be dealt with elsewhere. I can assure you most theists take the exact same approach to ‘discussion’ as you have here.

    What is it you are afraid of?

  113. Extraordinary! Twilight supporters disagreeing! Almost as strange as if Christians were ever to disagree!

    Actually, I don’t feel that I have a lot in common with many “Twilight supporters”. I think that the message of Twilight is profoundly Catholic, and so I have much more in common with devout Catholics who are not familiar with Twilight, than with many who like Twilight and don’t really understand why. I am longing for more deeply spiritual conversation with those who consciously perceive the glimpses of Christ shining through these books.

    If you consider that anyone encouraging others to read and appreciate Twilight would “bear great responsibility” if their readers were led astray, how can you not be concerned that you bear great responsibility if you lead others astray by turning them away from the gift that is in Twilight?

    I will accept that some people may have found Twilight books to be a source of temptation to them. That of itself does not make me think them evil. I know that many people have found wine to be a source of temptation to them, but that does not make me think that wine is evil. Some people think that, but it is not a Catholic belief. In fact, I have reason to believe that Jesus Himself provided large amounts of wine for a party, at which it is unlikely that everyone was stone cold sober after three days of drinking. I think that the beauty of women is a source of temptation for some people but I do not think that therefore the beauty of women is evil. I do not believe that woman are obliged to cover every speck of their beauty, leaving only eye spaces. Some people believe that, but it is not a Catholic belief.

  114. But how about Vimpire Eric or Eric Northman from True Blood or The Southern Vampire Mysteries by Charlaine Harris? He is even more gorgoius then Edward. Strong, beautiful, mystrious, sexy and dengerous. No way that women can resist him.

  115. Perhaps I am wrong, but I do not believe people are promoting these books as pro-chastity, but as pro-abstinence. Again, I am not sure. I have also not seen these books and movies being marketed as innocent.

    Edward first and foremost wants to wait until to marriage to save Bella’s soul. Yes, he is worried about hurting her, but that is always second to saving her soul.

    I believe you are taking some of the quotes from the book out of context and as far as I can read, don’t tell the ways in which Bella matures. Yes, while she was against marrying due to age and anxiety at first, she realized that marriage is not stupid, esp with Edward as her husband, and as soon as she realizes she is pregnant, she instinctivley begins to love and protect her child.

    Again, perhaps I am wrong, but I think it is important to remember that Stephanie Meyer did not write these books to help or hinder anyone’s spritual growth. She also never claimed that they were PG. The books are being attacked as is they are claming to stand up for something, when in reality, they were never meant to be analyzed in this way. Anything can be taken as anti-Christian if you wanted to. Having said that, I also want to note that I believe parents have every right to keep their children from these books if they so choose; in fact, I have suggested to many parents that children under a certain age should not be reading these books due to some serious themes.

    Spes Unica – I think some people are obsessed with this blog more so than Twlight! Haha!

  116. If y’all really want to see a real love story, watch the movie Bella.

  117. Beehai,
    Why are you goth? Maybe that is what people don’t understand. Just as my own family don’t understand my total obedience to the Church.

  118. Hey,
    I’m french, so excuse me for my english.
    I read some articles on your website and i’m so choked. I don’t like Twilight either because I think that this book is way too christian. So, it’s funny when I see that you think that it’s not. I get your arguments (even if I don’t believe that God exists) but I didn’t get the part where you’ve said that we should stay virgin until marriage to respect ourselves. I mean, you’re just having pleasure when you have sex, why wouldn’t you enjoy it. Plus, I don’t think that God really cares about you having sex with a stranger when he sees what everybody is doing to the earth (who was, as you think, created by Him). Things like virginity or homosexuality are just small issues (I don’t even think they are), when you consider the poverty in the world or when you see how much people are starving. You should make a blog on those things instead of speaking of a really uninteressant and not well-written book.

  119. First of all, to ???:
    God looks at all issues and measures them by how harmful and terrible they are, it doesn’t mean that the ‘small issues’ are left out. They count too. (Stephanie Meyer is Mormon, I believe. It may look Christian on the outside, but it really isn’t at all.)

    I’ve read all four books. Stephanie Meyer can’t write, but somehow, she seems to captivate you into reading more. If that isn’t a big red flag, I don’t know what is. Human beings are attracted to disguised evils, after all, and unfortunately the victims are young girls and women.

    I’m fourteen years old and the only amusement I get out of these books are laughs from the stupidity. Not to mention the movies. Those are absolute disasters.

    Anyway, I think one of the scariest things in the whole book is that the characters are frighteningly similar to kids today.

  120. DEAR ???,
    I suggest you give a honest inquiry to your convictions. Please start with The Case for Faith by Lee Strobel. Then, I do suggest reading the Privledged Planet(Or DVD) and then read Theology of the Body for Beginners(by Christopher West).

  121. Re-hi ^^.
    I’ve read some more of the articles on the website and i’m wandering what the hell ??? How can you spend your time restricting yourself like that. You’re not using someone as an object when you’re having sex with them. This is just two persons who want to have some pleasure, I really don’t understand you. Our earth is in very bad shape and we’ve caused it and you’re complaining about people making love, nobody dies from having safe sex but they do from global warming. You’re lecturing people but I’m sure that you use you car all day long, causing future problems to you children. Maybe you should reconsider your priorities because between people trying to have harmless pleasure and global issues like global warming, you should see what really matters to care about.

  122. Dear ???,
    “nobody dies after having sex”. People are die everyday all over the world from STDs and AIDS. Do you really beleive the purpose of sex is simply for tow people to “have some pleasure”? After this 3 minutes of pleasure and the guy makes a quick exit, does the girl feel used?
    Also, please do your research(and I suggest with an open mind) on global warming. There ain’t no such thing. It’s a hoax, scam, etc. It and they(the alarmist) has been literal exposed in the past month. And by the way, it ain’t called global warming no more…it is called climate change. Maybe that is b/c the Earth has been global cooling for the past 12-15 years.

  123. I am so glad you have this blog and present this material. My 9 yr old niece is reading Twilight and attends Catholic school and her father takes her to Mass. But you know, her father is the one who also bought her the book. She is a child!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Girls, I know how hard it is to be liked, to want excitement and romance. But that is what the world teaches you. God created you to have the greatest adventure of your life with Him!!!! And yes the stuff you read in school is just as bad. I agree!!!!! Do you know why???? Because ungodly liberal educators make those book decisions. As a former public school teacher, a mom of a little girl, I have chosen to homeschool my daughter because of the constant onslaught of modern culture that is so devoid of a loving God. Please make sure your faith in God matches up with what you read, watch and yes even wear. Don’t be like the world. The world will always let you down, it is imperfect. To the person who said go read a Bible, I challenge you to do the same.

    It has taken me 35 years to clean up my mind from the TV and junk that my own Christian professing parents put on in my home. I will make sure that I provide a godly environment for my little girl. She deserves that.

  124. Being nineteen myself, I find it extremely vexing that people seem to think teenagers are incapable of reading novels not found on the “Young Adult” shelves of your local bookstore. Twilight and its sequels may be the cream of the crop of “Young Adult” literature, but they are so deplorably written as to be laughable. Not one of the characters holds up to a serious analysis, as they are shallow and contradict themselves frequently, and the only appeal the books have is that of sex-appeal. It is not difficult to distinguish that most “Young Adult” literature is one step removed – if that – from the “Romance” literature which anyone can see is simply garbage by the sheer numbers it is turned out (in fact, in bookstores, the “Romance” section is generally just around the corner from the “Young Adult” section). Everything I have ever picked up off “Young Adult” shelves has been nonsensical plots wrapped up in steamy love scenes and packaged as “great literature”, and “Twilight” is no exception. Why not pass up the “beach reads” and try reading a good book, like “Les Miserables” or “The Hunchback of Notre Dame” – both of which, by the way, deal with such issues as chastity and premarital sex – and feel like one actually accomplished something? People give teenagers far too little credit if they think that they are only capable of enjoying junk like “Twilight”. In my own experience, eating garbage only distracts you from the good stuff.

  125. I am not anglophone, so excuse my English. I am a 30-year old. I have read the books and found them appalling.

    When you all react to ??? you should first of all keep in mind that he/she holds a European view. You could say that, culturally, overall, Europeans including Christians are more shocked by graphic depictions of violence than by that of sex. This is the opposite with Americans, and very visible on YouTube, where the few bits of flesh shown are made unavailable for viewers without an account, or even erased, and terrible violence is not. And Europeans will laugh about the unrealistic sex scenes you will only find in Hollywood films. We have an independent cinema that is much more raw and gritty in that respect.
    Please understand that I am not condemning you; I wished you to understand ??? ‘s reaction a bit more.
    That said. Yes, it has marriage, it has abstinence, but it has not the right kind for Christians (which I am not, but even I can see that).

    I would not want children to read twilight. It is a kind of porn for women that lets them crawl into the girl’s skin and imagine Edwards caress. Together with the message implied throughout the series that she could redeem the vampire if she just stays with him and makes a mindlessly trusting zombie consort, it makes for a very dangerous addictive type read in my opinion, that grooms an entire generation of impressionable girls to want to be mafia-wives (sorry hyperbole. or date badguy type boys at least), without telling them that its foolish to believe that a dangerous man will be sweet exclusively to you. That’s like jumping into a lion’s pit and trusting it will not eat you. But why the story frankly disgusts me is that is mysoginist in the extreme. Bella makes what little personality she had completely submissive to Edwards will. She has none in the end, she gives up everything (he forces her into marriage, she allows Edward’s sister Alice to dictate what the day looks like (how very romantic), he dictates who her friends are and when she may see them — I can go on) that is worth having including her humanity, which she doesn’t seem to think much of (“Take my soul, I don’t want it without you!” Really? Ick). If that is a Christian message, it is a very twisted one indeed.

    And about the abstinence: if a man says: you are my only reason for living, or any of those other extravagante protestations Edward has used, it means: I am talking you into bed, my dear, and I do not think much of your intellect.
    The books are not only NOT a good pro-abstinence message, but actually make girls naive about such things which is what I find very objectionable. I wonder if Stephenie Meijer is herself naive, or does not have the right mind to think.
    Besides that, its simply badly written purple prose that has nothing on the Shakespeare and Bronte that she refers to in her books.

  126. Very thoughtful observations. Thank you O.o

  127. youre right, spesunica. in this book bella is getting taken advantage of by a guy, it is weirdly perverted to peddle this to children, and bella does give up her entire personality and independence to be submissive to her husband.
    however, i fail to see why you have such a problem with the books, as youre clearly religious, and this is the most religion-laced book of ive ever read next to religious texts


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