Amidst the throng of Christian supporters of The Twilight Saga who insist that the books are pro-chastity and pro-life (even the actor who plays Edward in the film sees that the pro-chastity claim is false – see this) and that Edward Cullen is a fine example of a virtuous suitor, I would like to up the ante. I say these books are actually anti-Christian – and that Edward Cullen is an anti-Christ figure, and right here, right now, I am going to show you why.
There was a time (which is thankfully returning) when young children were asked “Why did God make you?” They would be expected to reply: “To know, love and serve Him in this life and to be happy with Him in the next.” Why was it so important that young children had that memorized? Because that one little sentence captured the meaning of human life. It also gave direction. Anything that I would do that helped me to know, love and serve God and be happy with Him forever was a good thing. Anything that I might do which prevented me from knowing, loving and serving God and being happy with Him forever was a bad thing.
OK – so, now we need to look at Bella’s reason for living. Is it consistent with the truth? (And if you are about to say “but this is just fantasy”, please be patient. I have posted before about the effect fantasy has on our ability to relate to reality. For example, see the post “Real love and real beauty go together…” or read the posts which lay out Michael O’Brien’s clear thinking on the matter.)
After Bella’s “rebirth” as a vampire in Breaking Dawn, she says, ”I was amazing now – to them and to myself. It was like I had been born to be a vampire. The idea made me want to laugh, but it also made me want to sing. I had found my true place in the world, the place I fit, the place I shined.”
With this “rebirth” into the vampire family, (an anti-type of Baptism) Bella embraces the unfortunate consequence that newborn vampires have an insatiable lust for human blood and unparalleled strength, which makes the habitual slaughter of innocents a forgone conclusion. Or does it? We discover that this law of vampire nature is not going to apply in Bella’s case. Why? Because her will is so strong that she is able to perform the (prior to) impossible. ”And then I realized what it might mean, if my ’superpower’ was no more than exceptional self-control… What if, like Carlisle, I never killed a single person? What if I could be a good vampire right away?… ‘Have you ever seen an equivalent to self-control as a talent?’ Edward asked Carlisle…’It’s similar to what Siobhan has always been able to do… She has this way of deciding her goals and then almost willing them into reality.” p.466/7 Did you catch that? Bella has the power to decide her goals – in this case to be a “good vampire” – and then through her exceptional self-control, she basically wills it into reality. This is a world where God and His grace are unnecessary. Bella saves herself from her bloodlust.
It is not surprising to find this here, and it is directly related to Bella’s stated reason for living. She has decided that she was born to be a vampire. If she can choose the entire orientation of her life, certainly she can choose to do away with little details she finds unpleasant. She is the ultimate arbiter of her own destiny. This is fatal pride. This is the pride of the Garden of Eden, the pride of Babel, the pride of all who would claim no need for a Savior since they can handle things on their own… a common sin in our self-sufficient generation.
That is consistent with Meyer’s use of the apple on the cover of Twilight and the introductory quote from the book of Genesis, of which the author states: “The apple on the cover of Twilight represents ‘forbidden fruit.’ I used the scripture from Genesis (located just after the table of contents) because I loved the phrase ‘the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil.’ Isn’t this exactly what Bella ends up with? A working knowledge of what good is, and what evil is.” Meyer, however, does not give a complete reading of the Scripture in Genesis. Most importantly, she completely evades the consequences of the rebellion. Of this, the Catechism of the Catholic Church (#396) states: “The prohibition against eating ‘of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil’ spells this out: ‘for in the day that you eat of it, you shall die’.”
So what does Bella experience by becoming a vampire? A greater ability to enjoy the “forbidden fruit” that is Edward: ”I could really appreciate him now… He was all new, a different person as our bodies tangled gracefully into one on the sand-pale floor. No caution, no restraint. No fear – especially not that. We could love together - both active participants now. Finally equals… I was never going to get tired, and neither was he. We didn’t have to catch our breath or rest or eat or even use the bathroom; we had no more mundane human needs. He had the most beautiful perfect body in the world and I had him all to myself, and it didn’t feel like I was ever going to find a point where I would think, Now I’ve had enough for one day. I was always going to want more. And the day was never going to end. So in such a situation, how did we ever stop?” p.482/3. The purpose of Bella’s life had become knowing, loving and serving Edward and being happy with him forever.
She had found, in Edward, this fulfillment – in a day that was “never going to end” (thus the title Breaking Dawn). Of course, this language immediately draws the Christian mind to the “endless day” brought about by Christ. ”Salvation” for Bella comes as a consequence of surrendering her soul in order to live a supposed never ending day as a vampire. Here, power, beauty and unrestricted sterile sex with her blood drinking vampire spouse become the equivalent of paradise – the “happily ever after”, as the final chapter of Breaking Dawn is called. Of course, salvation can only be found in the Person and Eternal Reign of Jesus Christ (Col. 3:1-11), the One Who gives His Blood as a ransom. The “promise” presented in The Twilight Saga is the same found in the garden of Eden, whispered by the serpent… “You will not die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” (Gen. 3:4-5) Meyer turns Revelation on its head, suggesting that the snake is right. Bella eats the forbidden fruit and gets everything she wants as a consequence. DON’T FALL FOR IT! IT’S A LIE!
Part two: Meyer’s says she is “anti human” – why is this anti-Christian? Read here.
NEW POST 12/27: IMPORTANT: Do girls need “fantasy”?
*For an example of a true gentleman, visit my post “A YOUNG MAN OF HEROIC VIRTUE”*
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,,When I read the reason why twilight considered as anti-christ and compare it to the movie that I watched. It is truly contradicted to the scripture written in the holy bible.
Cell phone post:
LDS does not believe in Original Sin. LDS teaches heaven is your own world with the husband as god. It all makes sense for LDS.
see Wikipedia LDS Original sin and ” Lds adam and eve”
Now do the messed up morals make sense?
While I appreciate you trying to inform people about “Twilight” and the dangers you believe it to possess, I cannot help but point out your egregious misquotations from the book. Quotations taken out of context not only make your arguments for “Twilight” being anti-christian invalid, but they also make you seem entirely uneducated and rather ridiculous.
If you’re going to “up the ante” by making such claims about this book (which you, by all means, have every right to), I suggest you know what you’re talking about and understand the context of these quotes before you begin.
-Just Another Believer
Dear “Just Another Believer” -
You have not pointed out any egregious misquotations.
Nor have you cited context.
Many people who attempt to defend these books do what you have accused me of – use proof text to ignore the negative elements.
Everything I have cited is in the books.
I do not believe you have taken any of these quotes out of context.
As a Twilight reader (used to be an avid fan) who has read each installment of the series numerous times I recognize each quote and they are not taken out of context and completely valid to prove your point.
And I agree, the themes and values threaded into the story are contrary to a life of Christ-following. Basically what’s going on is idolatry and blatant denial of God’s purpose for our lives. Bella places Edward above everything else in her life. God is really not anywhere in there at all, least of all at the top where He should be.
People say, ‘Well teenage girls aren’t going to go try and find a vampire to fall in love with, this is fantasy and they know that!’. But they miss what girls will do – start to believe in and agree with Bella’s point of view on life and place finding that perfect guy and committing their entire being to him at the top of their priorities.
So I applaud you for taking a stand and posting your views despite it being such a popular series.
Seriously? You try to prove that Twilight is Anti-Christian and this is what you come up with?
Let’s see what you have here:
1. Bella lives for the one she loves, not God. Try to find a modern book for teenagers in which characters live for God. Go ahead, try. These days, most works of literature don’t bother with God out of respect for the large number of people who don’t believe in God and don’t want it shoved down their throats. In addition, religion is often unnecessary to the plot. Not mentioning God in a fantasy novel cannot be taken as antiChristian. And neither can living for someone/something other than God. Most true believers live for other reasons.
2. Bella can be good without God’s aid. That’s antiChristian?! Being able to Choose not to kill people without praying to God is bad? I’m sorry/scared that you think that.
3. Didn’t God give us free will? Or does your Bible not mention that stuff?
4. Fruit of knowledge. Eve chose to accept pain and suffering in exchange for knowledge. She gave up ignorance. Could we truly be happy if it was simply because we were stupid? Don’t try to say I’ve misinterpretted Genesis, I’m simply showing you another opinion on a section of the Bible often accepted as little more than an excuse to show how horrible we women are to men. See? My interpretation was better than that.
5. Day that was “never going to end.” In Breaking Dawn, it has nothing to do with the Bible, it’s just Bella being happy to be with her husband. Nowhere does it say she surrendered her soul, that’s just your interpretation. Married couples are allowed to (and generally supposed to) have sex and enjoy it. If her paradise is being with the one she loves, how can that be wrong? Are we seperated from our spouses in Heaven? Meyer does not “turn Revelation on its head.” Revelation is not about vampires.
This is the worst antiTwilight rubbish I have ever seen. There is plenty of things in those books you could have twisted into being antiChristian (well, plenty may be a bit much. My grandparents liked it and they consider most things antiChristian) and you’ve chosen simply to make your religion look like an idiot. As a Christian, I am offended how you’ve chosen to misrepresent the religion.
Dear Lee -
When you come up against something you may not understand, try to approach with a spirit of humility.
Whether people are willing to accept it or not, the fact of the matter is we have all been created by God and we are sustained in being by God at every moment of our existence. God does not need to be shoved down anyone’s throat. He knit that very throat together while they were growing in their mother’s womb. The throat people do not want God shoved down would vanish from existence if God’s love for them was not keeping it in existence. God is already there…
Having said that, it is not respectful to lie. Do I show respect for my child – a child who does not believe that 2+2=4 – if I avoid mentioning that 2+2 IS 4? No. If I avoid telling my child the truth… THAT is disrespectful. It shows that I have such little concern for my child that I really don’t care if he is right or wrong.
God exists, my friend. There is no such thing as not bothering to mention God out of respect for someone. If I fail to mention God – God Who is the author of our very being and calls us into relationship with Him as His children – I more likely show contempt than respect for the person.
Which leads me to my next point. A book doesn’t have to use the word “God” in order to show forth a worldview that is consistent with Christianity. Two very popular series of books that have been made into movies recently are the Lord of the Rings trilogy and now the Chronicles of Narnia. There are two excellent examples of children’s literature where the authors write very well and write to convey eternal truths. If you want to do some investigation regarding children’s literature, go to http://www.bethlehembooks.com. You’ll find many things there that are neither corrupting nor anti-Christian.
You must love the Lord your God with your whole heart, your whole mind, and all your strength. Anyone or anything that prevents that love of God or replaces it is a form of idolatry – this is common, perhaps, but nevertheless wrong and a violation of the 1st Commandment. Does this mean we cannot love our family or friends? Of course not. But our love for others must always flow from our love of God and never be a hindrance to it. (For example – if I love my mother, but my mother wants me to have an abortion, which would take the life of my unborn child and therefore be immoral – I must put my love for God over my love for my mother and refuse to do what my mother wants me to do.) Bella “loved” Edward to the point of stating that she did not care if she lost her soul in order to become a vampire… that is idolatry.
Yes, it is completely anti-Christian to say that you can be good without God’s aid. Again – God is our Creator, we are mere creatures. He – in the Person of Jesus Christ – is also our Savior. We can do nothing good without the grace of God. Period. Any good you do, Lee, is a gift of God’s grace. I am sorry and scared that you do not know that, because if any of us rely solely on our own strength, we fail.
God gave us the incredible gift of free will, which means we have the opportunity to choose to do that which is good. That is a fundamental aspect of what it means to be a human person. Our free will separates us from animals and plants – we have what is called a “rational soul” . Yes, you can see evidence of it in the Bible, but it can also be known by natural reason, and ancient philosophers (like Aristotle who wrote De Anima: On the Soul) were aware of this reality – so avoid the condescending language, please. It is important to note – however – that our freedom is not absolute. We cannot simply will our own version of reality into being. I do not have the freedom to choose to be something I am not simply by the power of my will. In that sense, we are not the ultimate arbiter of our own destiny. Only God’s Will is pure act – meaning, He Wills and it is. God said “let there be light” – and there was light. This also applies to moral actions. God has a rule book that it is impossible for us to re-write.
In the Garden, Eve chose to believe the serpent instead of God. The serpent suggested that God didn’t want her to eat of the tree because He was trying to keep something from Eve. She lost her trust in God and trusted instead in a deceiver and in her own judgment in opposition to God. That is pride.
In Genesis, this disobedience has consequences. Humanity (not just women, by the way – Adam ate, too) fell from grace and needed a Savior. In Twilight, Bella’s pride is rewarded with everything she has ever wanted – thus making it look like the serpent was right: if you act in pride to get what you want, you win. That is the way Revelation is turned on its head. I never said Revelation is about vampires.
Bella is completely willing to surrender her soul. There is no definitive statement in the book that says “and then her soul left” – but Edward sure does believe she will lose her soul in becoming a vampire. That is the main reason he doesn’t want her “turned”. It is not my “interpretation” – it is Edward’s belief – and Bella really doesn’t care one way or the other, which is the important thing. She says she doesn’t care if that is what it takes to be with Edward.
For those who have studied Scripture, they will be familiar with the use of terms like “never ending day” as referring to the Reign of Jesus Christ. It doesn’t matter what Bella thinks “her” paradise is – because she is wrong. There is one paradise. You either get there or you don’t. And it is not with Edward – it is with Jesus.
Personally I have never read the Twilight books, nor do I intend to. I think there is a much better pool of fantasy and fiction novels out there for young adults to read — but that is neither here nor there.
I know that Twilight is currently a huge fad and that, because it obviously goes against your beliefs, this is why you are paying it so much attention, but the Twilight books are hardly the worst things out there. I go into bookstores and see preteen girls picking out something to read in the ADULT romance novel section, and even my classmates in high school used to read this sort of thing. Why not focus your message on those books? With their graphic and frequent sex scenes, Twilight looks innocent.
Dear Nicole –
I agree with you – there are much worse things out there than Twilight. I also agree with you that it is a huge fad, so I am paying a lot of attention to it. I think huge fads have a lasting impact on our culture, for better or for worse. I think criticism of the worse books (for example, “adult” romance novels) is implied based on what I have written on this site.
Why does Jesus always have to get in the way with you guys? I mean talk about party pooper….the minute something starts to look remotely entertaining you have to drag his name into it…
Jesus is dead, ok? So do yourself a favour and get over it.
And what’s so evil about the cullen vampires anyway? They seem a whole lot better than some of the serial rapists / pot-addicts that you find in the bible.
Dear Buckbeak -
I am being generous and allowing your comment to appear. You are wrong, and perhaps allowing your comment to be posted will encourage others to pray for you.
However, I will not be as gracious in the future if your comments cross the bounds of decency, so just be aware of that.
I like your answers Kaiya
____________
Anyhoo, when I first started reading the series (like some others) I didn’t think it was written very well. The book was extremely frustrating.
Making a long story short, the question I still ask myself now is, how did I become so unhealthily addicted and spiritually affected by a series I could hardly stand to read?”
This whole series was like a stronghold I didn’t want and couldn’t seem overcome. I became uncontrollably obsessed over this make-believe world the created. And fell into a pit of manic-depressive-suicidal state.
All the while, I ignored that small voice inside of my heart telling me to let it go. And now that I made the fist-clenching effort to sell them I really feel relieved of something spiritually upsetting that I wasn’t able to explain.
This is just my personal experience with these books. Please don’t think I’m trying to “sway” anyone’s opinion. Don’t have that kind of influence.
Martin – LDS is associated with the occult as well.
i just began looking into this book when my 12 yr old started to read it. I have been reading some of the comments about how Bella puts Edward above all. Dont you think that there is a possibility that a Catholic girl could read this and as shes reading say to herself ;”this is how we are supposed to view Christ” I wonder if any of the girls are realizing this’ knowing that the book is fiction……
Dear Bonnie -
I think it is possible they may idolize Edward, but I think it is unlikely that they are thinking that they should view Christ as they view Edward. As you will notice in the interview with Robert Pattinson, he speaks to the effect his character has on young girls – the reaction is more one of lust than love. That is not an effect that Christ would have on a girl. I think Twilight capitalizes on a girl’s desire to be loved, but not in a good way. Because Bella idolizes (and by this I mean makes an idol of) Edward, she has a faulty moral compass. All right and wrong – in Bella’s idolatrous world – is determined by her ability to be with Edward. This relationship cannot serve as a metaphor for the relationship between Christ and the soul because love for Christ restores and properly orders our moral compass. Let me explain. We do not lie to our parents because we love Christ. We do not contemplate suicide or other means of hurting ourselves because we love Christ. We do not think it is ok to lose our souls because we love Christ. We do not beg someone to have pre-marital sex with us if we think of them as Christ. I could go on, but you probably get the point. Christ is the Beloved who gives His blood to save His people from sin. The vampire is the anti-type of Christ – whose very existence demands the blood of victims. Devotion to Edward leads Bella further away from what is true, good and beautiful – which is the opposite of devotion to Christ.
I am so glad my friend found out about this. at first i thought “o she quotes the bible its ok” but i did not think of what she was implying. maybe she didn’t intentionally imply anything, but u r defanitely right. i hav heard of someone leaving their window open hoping a vamp will enter! its time to wake from our dissilusionment. there are plenty of great books in the world that don’t involve denying God’s natural course. if we fill our minds with authors like ted dekker and karen kingsbury surely we shall be just as satisfied in our readings and come closer to God. He is worth it so we must turn from this! i don’t know about u guys, but those books seriously get into ur head! for some reason it would constantly b there. make ur own decisions, it is for none of us to judge if u still read them but as for me and my house, i shall serve the Lord!
I think to say that this is Anti-Christian is incorrect. I have not read the books yet,only seen the movie,and I like it pretty well. Aside from this debate,I think the story flow has something lacking,but I think it’s pretty interesting. And it’s growing on me. But back to the Religious views of it,why bring that into it? Because it is supposed to quote the Bible? Why are you assuming that the Bible is even Real in this universe? I am only meaning to state my beliefs here,but exactly what proof do you have that the Bible is even true? Tell me why? Because God says so? The Bible says so? That doesn’t prove anything. I once heard a preacher say that the Greek version of a word we see in the Bible as “work” (though I would like to study the OLD versions in Greek) that the original? Greek alphabet of it actually truly translates to a word in english meaning “energy”. This same word,they always put in english Bible as the english word “work”. World of difference. Something’s not right there,why didn’t they just make it “energy”? How many humans could have corrupted this? And is the base of it True? Where is this base? When they were inspired? How do we know this? Please tell me how you know. If someone believes in this,that is their Faith,but how can you say God is Real? I really don’t think we can have this knowledge here. And also when you say that you would not have an abortion if your mother wanted you to have one,and the reason to not would be to not sin against God,that sounded more important than the desire to not have one because you wouldn’t want to kill your unborn child? Now that’s scary! No matter what’s true! And about humans,the Bible says most of them are going to Hell,I think that a human has a choice whether to be Good or Evil,BUT,Human Nature is very wicked. This consists of base desires that are purely selfish. So I am Anti-Human Nature,not Anti-Human. I don’t dislike the rare ones that act with compassion and sense. But someone trying to force their belief of God on others is not acting with these,because it is over all our heads,and none of us know everything. It’s forcing someone to believe in it to say you know for sure that God is real. Why not preach to people saying this is what you believe? You can believe if you want. Saying that you KNOW God is real is wrong. I would like to know the Real Truth about this existence,but the Bible may or may not be it,or based in it. Only concrete proof would confirm this.
Dragonbaby,
You asked a lot of good questions. Just as you believe, without any proof, that we cannot have “this knowledge “, referring to that of God, etc., and many other propositions you gave here that you believe, so, also, can others believe that there is a God, and that He is the author of the Bible and of our salvation. Can we prove this scientifically? No – ust as many theories out there cannot be proved scientifically, yet people believe them and would and do stake their lives and reputation on that belief. If you have a Bible, or can get one, can you read the book of Romans, or at least Romans 1:18-21 and 2:12-16? God has put the knowledge of Him in everyone of us – the unseen can be known through those things which can be seen. He has also put a law in the heart of every man. Why do all nations follow a code of law, especially when you follow your logic that humans are basicaly wicked (also a biblical truth)? What is amazing to me is that there is any restraint at all. Why is there? It can only be explained, I believe, by the truth found in Romans. I do not desire to push this truth down anyone’s throat. I couldn’t if I wanted to. Only God can reveal himself in a special way to a person. although he has given us all the general revelation of himself in nature, in creation, and in the law written in our hearts. There are many reasons why I believe the Bible is authored by God, but there is not room to go into that here. There are good books out there that you can read to find out how the Bible came to us. If you would like to research this, just let me know. But if you are looking for proof that you can touch and feel, as with most other things in life, you will not find it. We all come to our beliefs because of faith – ALL of us, Christian, atheist, LDS, evolutionists, psychologists, muslim, on and on. Pray that God will reveal himself to you. That is what Cornelius did in the book of Acts, and God sent Peter to teach him about God and Christ Jesus.
Having watched the film but not read the books, I can only comment on my interpretation of the first install which may not necessarily be correct or in context until I have read the complete saga. I am youth leader in the UK and have for last six months used films, mainly Christian made to prompt heatlhy bible discussions that fit with real life scenarios. As my title states I am confused. I am confused because a lot of my youth group have seen the film and a couple have even read the books (being that they are teens). Teens tend to go and watch the latest films particularly when they cause so much debate like this one. My confusion comes from the question “what I should do about it?” Do I promote a conversation/discussion night about the film and do I attempt to bring back some of the misleading morals, and disguised evils in the film. Saying that, I have to say I was pleasantly surprised at some of the scenes in the film and how some good positive discussion that could come from them. One particular line in the film jumped out at me. Bella was driving to the dance studio to replace her mum for herself, the narrative had her saying (sorry might misquote, but the point is there) “I’ve always wondered how I would die, I guess dieing for someone you love is a good way to go.” If there is was any quote from any film that could help to emphasise and bring up the sacrificial substition of Jesus Christ then that was it!!
Now i realise I might get slammed for that comment but I felt it warranted a conversation with my young people.
I don’t think there is any benefit in discussing chastity as I don;t think the film stands in a good place, Edward does not choose “a no sex realtionship” out of love for Bella but out of fear for his dark lust. Which is the wrong way to look at sex before marriage. Also the film doesn’t handle temptation that well either as it glamorises the vampires and almost tries to make them look damned and good at the same time which is unhealthy for Christians to see. When Edward revealed himself to the Sun (philosophy, particularly plato sees the Sun as the source of all knowledge, almost like a God presence) he was shown as having a beautiful glimmering face almost angelic looking. This is also challenging to bring any kind of Christian relevance and like I said the author is almost showing the vampires (vegetarian vampires) as being moral/good as well as eternally damned.
There is much more that I could bring up but my summary is this. It is inevitable that our teenagers will watch the films or read these books and it is important that we enter into healthy Christian conversations to help them determine the important truths about our relationship with God and not to be seduced or have a diluted faith at the hands of popular culture.
Dear Puzzled Christian -
I think you raise some excellent points/questions.
To answer the first question re: having read the 1st book/seen the movie – yes, the series does get darker as it goes on – so the worst of it is yet to come for you. I work with youth, so I decided to read the entire series. I’m very glad I did, because I was able to form a view of the whole story and provide credible critique.
What to do about it? Well – Twilight has to be addressed, because, as you say – tons of teenagers (and others) are reading it.
I always tell those who haven’t read it yet not to bother, and I tell them why I think they shouldn’t bother. I think reading the books can be occasions of sin, so I don’t hold studies of the books or anything of that nature. However, I am happy to discuss the books with those who have read them.
I think using the quote about dying for someone you love is fair enough – you can take it because it is familiar to the kids, but then you can put it in its proper context. Bella had problems because she was willing to sacrifice everything for something other than God… in this case, she is willing to sacrifice all for a relationship that harmed her. Nothing and no one other than God is worthy of that kind of total surrender. God has to be first – seek His Kingdom and all will be added. I think you can point out that Bella’s relationship with Edward is a kind of idolatry as a consequence. Jesus’ Sacrifice, on the other hand, was from His complete surrender to His Father. “Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass before me – but – not my will but Thine be done.
I think your assessment regarding the lack of chastity in the series is correct – and it only gets worse as it goes on. You’ll get to a point in the third book where Bella is begging Edward to have sexual intercourse with her. Not healthy.
Yes – Vampires are made out as the heroes in all this – I mean, if you watch the film and see all the Cullens round the tv watching a cooking show in order to feed Bella on her visit, who wouldn’t want that kind of kind, loving family around them?! You get no sense of how evil it was for the “father” to have turned them into vampires without their consent. And it encourages the lie that anything is better than death – even living forever as a vampire. Not true. If you have lived well, death brings a reward and should not be avoided by changing into a soul-less, immortal being.
Also, I agree that temptation is handled badly. There is a constant presence of pride throughout the book – that ultimately, we can save ourselves and have our way. Death is a punishment for sin – but I can overcome death by myself by becoming a vampire. (Then who needs Christ?) I can overcome temptations by my own will power – so who needs grace? Later on in the series, we see Bella overcoming the normal killing spree of newborn vampires by her own will power. (No consequences for her bad decisions.)
So – yes – point out the flaws in these things. I think you will do a fine job. But I wouldn’t screen the film in order to do it, nor would I assign the books as reading in order to do it. Just discuss with those who are already into it. It is not inevitable that everyone will succumb to the series. I know this from experience.
God bless your work!
well i would like to say that i do not agree that its ok to read.watch or have any thing to with twilight movies, videos or anything else, the bible tells us to stay away from witch craft, sourcery and anything related to evil and darkness.
“Whether people are willing to accept it or not, the fact of the matter is we have all been created by God and we are sustained in being by God at every moment of our existence.”
Please don’t use the word “fact” when talking about “belief” and “faith”. It offends me and encroaches upon my own “beliefs”. Thanks.
Do people like you honestly have nothing better to do than pick apart adolescent entertainment like Harry Potter and Twilight in order to benefit your own agenda? For (Editor’s note – misusing the Lord’s Name is not acceptable on this site. I will remove blasphemous language – like I just did) sake. Get a life. Oh right, your life is devoted to God, so you’re actually doing His work right now. If this is what God wants, S/He is a sad, sad entity who I imagine listens to emo music while cutting him or herself, shortly after writing some teen angst poetry. People only read into what they want to read into. Someone with no religious affiliation whatsoever will not view this as anti-Christian, not that I actually care if they do, and neither should you. Censor for yourself whatever you want, but stop the mindless crusade on other’s psyches.
You’re hurting our youth, whether you want them to believe in God or not. I’m not saying that Twilight is a Pulitzer Prize winner, but by trying to silence imagination and creativity, you are hurting our youth. You can decide that God doesn’t want anyone to have thoughts other than Him/Her, but that god is a sadistic and ridiculous one. This post is so self-righteous, narcissistic and retarded. I’m scared that my kids might grow up with yours.
Do what you want and hit me with some contradicting Bible quotes or some condescending smarm about how you’ll pray for me, or won’t pray for me; whatever. I really feel sorry for you.
Dear Jules -
I am very specific in my word choice. I say “fact” when I mean it.
It is a fact that we have been created and are sustained in being by God. Your denial of that truth does not make it untrue. It just means that you are ready to deny what is real. God’s existence can be known by philosophy – there are 5 philosophical proofs for the existence of God. Natural reason can recognize this truth. Before you make claims to the contrary, engage in some serious philosophical inquiry. Read Aristotle’s Metaphysics before making claims about the difference between Faith and Reason. The “science” which claims there is no Creator has been shown time and time again to be seriously lacking – on scientific grounds. For an entertaining examination of this situation, you can watch Ben Stein’s “Expelled”.
Peace.
ok well i am glad my kids dont grow up with yours, its ppl like u that allow stuff into our movie theaters and through music that damages the youtrh of today i am doing Gods work right nowq in michigan gettingyuoth away from that garbage that you think is ok. films llike twiligght and those pother “youth entertainment” things that you say are not bad are bringing yuoth to pratice things that are protrade in those films.
i am not going to give u bible verses cause u dnt beleive in it any way, i hope u find god and see that he tells as to gaurd our mind from the evil things of this world.
god bless
Please. I’m not going to deny or refute whether a god exists; that was not the point of my comment. What one believes their own God’s purposes or desires or even forms are are not fact. There are far too many religions and beliefs in the world for any of us to be absolutely right. That you think that makes what you say that more invalid to me. Not that this matters, but I’m not exactly an Atheist; I’m just not willing to commit to a single specific view of which I have no absolute verification. That’s reserved for faith.
Jonathan: keep your kids away from any media and creativity you don’t like and burn your own books if it makes you happy. Just don’t try to force others to follow suit if they’re not willing. I hope you find spellcheck.
Dear Jules -
You are correct that committing to a specific religion requires faith.
To be a Christian, one must accept that God has revealed Himself to be Three Persons in one God (the Trinity).
That is not a Truth that we can come to by reason. The only way we can know the doctrine of the Trinity is by Revelation.
It is beyond the scope of the human mind to penetrate the mystery.
Another fundamental mystery of Christianity is belief in the Incarnation.
To believe that the Second Person of the Holy Trinity became man while remaining God – and that He had two Natures (one human, one Divine) in one Person is something beyond human comprehension. We accept it as an article of Faith.
That is why I wanted to be very specific about what I said.
We can know the existence of God purely through the use of human reason – it is not an act of Faith. It does not depend on Revelation.
To say that I believe in the Trinity – Father, Son and Holy Spirit – Three Persons in One God – and that Jesus Christ is the Incarnate Word – IS an act of Faith. It does depend on Revelation.
However, it is a logical fallacy to claim that there is nothing which is absolutely right (true) because many opinions exist.
Many opinions can depart from the truth. That doesn’t make the truth false.
firstly i want to say that i cannot help my spelling so sorry bout that.
secondly i am open minded about religion and agree no one religion is 100% accurate, however, I follow the bible and jesus christs as i feel this is the most accurate one that i find, i do not force my beliiefs on any one but i will not stand by why ppl like you make light of the fact that the mesia is damaging our kids along with the music industry.
Why do you think a movie like Twilight is damaging our youth? Because it’s anti-Christian? That’s basically what this whole thing is about. Do you know what happens to kids who watch and love Twilight? They become giddy, excitable teenyboppers who squeal at the sight of Robert Pattinson. Is that really what you’re concerned about? It’s so weird to me that you’re choosing to focus on a movie geared toward youth that doesn’t glamorize drugs or even violence. You seem to feel this way because these movies and music don’t subscribe to praising Christianity or what you believe are Christian values. If I’m wrong about your intentions, please elaborate. I understand taking issue with, say, a movie aimed at children where the protagonist gets super powers from sniffing magic white powder. But a fantasy movie about a girl falling in love with a handsome vampire who, by the way, embraces a sense of mortality by refusing to see humans as food (talk about a vampire who has moral values!)? That’s hardly cause for parental outcry.
Want to really damage our kids? Stifle their sense of self-expression (not limitless), suppress their natural druthers, and teach them intolerance for people of different colors, creeds, and various orientations. This is a fool-proof way to ensure children grow up to be damaged adults and “some” people seem to be doing a good job of this already.
i think its damaging cause it gets kids to focus on superpowers and the dark side, they have just glamortised it to make ppl like you think its ok. I think all media that protrays magic, witches, vampires, drugs, sex, should not be allowed to b shown to youths, because they get desensitised to it , meaning at first twilight will scare them then they will become ok with it, then they will need something more scary or magical to get them going, it is the same with drugs, and the movie and music industry knows what it is doing, it is preparing the youth for the next generation of movies and music which will be more vile and wrong that now, example, if twilight had been released say 100 years ago there would ahve been a puplic out cry saying its against God and so on, but since the 60’s the media have slowly brought things in so we wont notice and slowly but surely we are becoming a aceeptance society, not reacting to immoral movies or videos. I have first hand experince on what happenes to yuoth when they watch stuff like twilight, they become invloved with the supernatural, maybe innocent at first. but soon it becomes a dangerous game.
I hope your children do not go throguh what a lot of children, who you dnt knw about cause they are not put in the media, go throguh.
I would like to propose a very different point of view. First of all, it is important that you understand what we agree on. I know that you are completely right (consider this brief statement to encompass all it implies) that the whole point of living is to get to Heaven, and in the Catholic Church God has showed us the way. I would like for you to consider the possibility that the Twilight books might be potentially helpful in that. I understand your concerns about the possibility that certain aspects of the books might lead some people astray. I do not think that we can condemn any gift from God just because some people abuse the gift, or fail to see God’s goodness in it. For instance, clearly God meant for wine to be a gift to us. The scriptural references are too many to enumerate in this small space- I will mention here only the wedding at Cana. Because some people have suffered from taking this gift in a wrong way, other people consider that it is no gift at all, but rather an evil. People who deny the goodness of the gift of wine completely are as wrong in a different way as alcoholics.
People go to Hooters because they say the wings are great. Some say they read Playboy because of the good articles (even Randall Terry did an interview in Playboy because he said he wanted to reach an audience who wouldn’t usually hear his message). St. John Vianney – who is being declared the Universal Patron of all Priests by Pope Benedict XVI in this Year of Priesthood – would not have tolerated those kinds of justifications from his flock. Here is a quote from his Little Catechism:
“ON LUST
Lust is the love of the pleasures that are contrary to purity.
No sins, my children, ruin and destroy a soul so quickly as this shameful sin; it snatches us out of the hands of the good God and hurls us like a stone into an abyss of mire and corruption. Once plunged in this mire we cannot get out, we make a deeper hole in it every day, we sink lower and lower. Then we lose the faith, we laugh at the truth of religion, we no longer see Heaven, we do not fear Hell. O my children! how much are they to be pitied who give way to this passion! How wretched they are! Their soul, which was so beautiful, which attracted the eyes of the good God, over which He leant as one leans over a perfumed rose, has become like a rotten carcass, of which the pestilential odor rises even to His throne. …
See, my children! Jesus Christ endured patiently, among His Apostles, men who were proud, ambitious, greedy – even one who betrayed Him; but He could not bear the least stain of impurity in any of them; it is of all vices that which He has most in abhorrence: “My Spirit does not dwell in you,” the Lord says, “if you are nothing but flesh and corruption.” God gives up the impure to all wicked inclinations of his heart. He lets him wallow, like the vile swine, in the mire, and does not even let him smell its offensive exhalations….The immodest man is odious to everyone, and is not aware of it. God has set the mark of ignominy on his forehead and he is not ashamed; he has a face of brass and a heart of bronze; it is in vain you talk to him of honour, of virtue; he is full of arrogance and pride. The eternal truths, death, judgment, Paradise, Hell – nothing terrifies him, nothing can move him. So, my children, of all sins, that of impurity is the most difficult to eradicate. Other sins forge for us chains of iron, but this one makes them of bull’s hide, which can be neither broken nor rent; it is a fire, a furnace, which consumes even the most advanced old age. See those two infamous old men who attempted the purity of the chaste Susannah; they had kept the fire of their youth even till they were decrepit. When the body is worn out with debauchery, when they can no longer satisfy their passions, they supply the place of it, oh, shame! by infamous desires and memories.”
How many infamous desires and memories are being stirred up in the heart of those reading this saga? It is not a misuse of the text. IT IS IN THE TEXT ITSELF – as the impurity is in Hooters and Playboy. Twilight IS an abuse. Recognizing that is a way of extolling the beauty of true love and intimacy.
Desire is in the text, as is also self sacrificing love and self restraint. Unbridled desire is very popular in our culture. This is the only popular modern book which extols self restraint. The self restraint only makes sense in the context of the desire.
In a different thread I asked what books you would recommend for young people, and you suggested books which have potential problems, some of which I hinted at. Clearly a book does not have to be absolutely pure for you to think that it is good. Perhaps the more truly Catholic attitude would be to find the good in the Twilight books, and use that to help develop the morals of those attracted to the work. I also noticed that the books you did recommend were all fairly old books. Are there any modern books by currently writing authors you would consider praiseworthy?
People need to relax! This is a fiction novel series. Regardless of what is in it, the focus should not be on what is “bad about it” but rather that it is FICTION! Get off your high hourses and come down to the humility of CHRIST and actually go and reach out and love people. i.e. Point them to Christ rather than just away from something else.
Christianity has become more about being seperate than being set appart. About being another nation rather than ambassadors. Following Christ is about being counter cultural not anitcultural or seperate culture.
I agree with reaching out to the lost, but we are told in scripture to stay away from the dorces of darkness and also the appereance of evil. Twilight maybe fiction but there are people who beleive in vampires and get really messed up by them, which movies like this only add to their fanitsy. are challenge christians who say its just a book or its not that bad to watch a film called “time Changer”. its about how we get so desenitised to stuff that it no llonger bothers us. our kids are getting the idea that if it feels good do it. this book may seem harmless but what it represents is how tolerant we have become to the things that The Bible tells us to stay away from.
we need to be witnesses for Christ which means not staying silent when we see something that is wrong coming into our towns and cities. the devil wdoes his work discreetly so we get use to the bad sex, drugs bad language and stuff. WAKE UP AND PAY ATTENTION. either you make a stand now, or our children will take the fall later.
god bless
and a side not, i have had an experince with a teenager who thought she was a vampire and trust me the devil works through people who feel theyv are in touch with the dark site